Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th February 2016, 10:46 AM   #1
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default 2016 Gurkha Museum visit with Jerry

Had a super day at the GM, it was good to see a couple of old friends Gavin (the curator) and Mergh Rai and discuss with Gavin various aspects of kukri supply, as well as to do some research.
I was also able to get Jerry to verify and confirm handle type of the issued kukri (in the 'Official' picture) of Gobarsing of the 1/4th Gurkhas in Burma in WW2, which is of the ring/banded with rivet style of the same type in the picture of the mannequined Gurkha
Attached Images
       

Last edited by sirupate; 4th February 2016 at 11:32 AM.
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2016, 10:51 AM   #2
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

I had a chance to browse through some of Villiers-Stuarts marvellous photographic records of his battalion and regiment
Attached Images
   
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2016, 10:54 AM   #3
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Some of the displays
Attached Images
      
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th February 2016, 11:03 AM   #4
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Some of the kukri
Attached Images
         
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2016, 01:22 PM   #5
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Hi guys, I took this picture of the below sword at the GM on the recent visit, which was potentially carried by Officers of the 8th Assam Rifles, later 6th GR C.1830, is it based on the French sabres of the same period? or another European's countries sabre?
Thanks in advance Simon
Attached Images
 
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th February 2016, 06:36 AM   #6
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

It is interesting to see the Afghan choora and Tibetan weapons in the display.
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th February 2016, 11:15 AM   #7
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

They are nicely made too Estcrh, glad you like them
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2016, 12:38 PM   #8
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

I managed to get a slightly better view of the Tibetan swords Estcrh
Attached Images
 
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2016, 04:45 PM   #9
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirupate
Hi guys, I took this picture of the below sword at the GM on the recent visit, which was potentially carried by Officers of the 8th Assam Rifles, later 6th GR C.1830, is it based on the French sabres of the same period? or another European's countries sabre?
Thanks in advance Simon
It does indeed look similar to the French AN XI cavalry sword. The Russians based their M1827 on the French pattern, and other European countries probably copied it as well. Posting the picture in the European section of the forum will probably produce more comments, as the folks there are a lot more knowledgeable than me.

Teodor
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th February 2016, 05:48 PM   #10
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Many thanks Teodor, I already have as the post was slipping into obscurity, but once again many thanks for the reply and answer
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2016, 03:00 AM   #11
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2016, 09:48 PM   #12
dennee
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 186
Default

Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.
dennee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2016, 06:31 AM   #13
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennee
Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.
The description appears to say...."Gurkha kukri, Tibetian swords and Pathan knives presented to Field Marshal Archibald Percival Wavell while viceroy of India 1947". Someone will have to fill in the details as to why they ended up in this particular museum.
Attached Images
   
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2016, 12:19 PM   #14
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.
That type of hilt on khunda and kukri is quite rare in terms of Nepal, why it was put on Khunda I do not know, as its primary function was one of use in sacrificial duties, whether it was copied from Tulwar, or a Sikh influence etc again I am sorry to say I don't know
The earliest I have seen that type of hilt on kukri is from the Palpa war in 1806 pictures attached from my visit in 2009
Attached Images
  
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2016, 12:26 PM   #15
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Jung Bahadur Rana (1817-1877), in the national Museum all the khunda have the classic handle as per this picture
Attached Images
 
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2016, 12:53 PM   #16
sirupate
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennee
Very nice. Was there any provenance info on the labels for the Bhutanese swords? That is, the reason why they are in a Gurkha collection? Are they captures from the Younghusband expedition, for instance?

The short sword is quite interesting. Ones of that length usually seem to be working knives without such quality fittings.
I'm afraid I don't have any info about why the Viceroy was presented the swords etc. or why they ended up in the GM. But Wavell being the Viceroy would have been presented all sorts of stuff. Perhaps his close association with Slim was the reason the swords etc. ended up in the GM, but I honestly do not know.
Attached Images
 
sirupate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 06:20 PM   #17
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estcrh
Any info on this type of hilt, I have seen it on both kora and kukri with dates ranging from the 19th to 20th century.
Wondering if anyone knows more about kora blades with these hilts. I have seen them listed as 'kharga' (such as
here ), but don't know much about the influences of these hilts (that look decidedly European rather than indigenous)
I stumbled upon one and picked it up for nearly nothing, so I didn't do much research beforehand.
Thoughts?
Attached Images
 
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 09:41 PM   #18
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,713
Default

Shadye78, if you really want to know more about these blades, you should look at South India - centuries back.
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th January 2018, 10:15 PM   #19
shayde78
Member
 
shayde78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 442
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
Shadye78, if you really want to know more about these blades, you should look at South India - centuries back.
Thanks, Jens!
Are you referencing the ayudha katti from around Karnataka? I am always curious about origin of weapon forms, but in this case, I was mostly concerned with determining when kora blades were mounted in these gilts, and if that points to a specific place of origin for these specific weapons.
Still, if you have info on the origin of the kids and related blades, I'm curious to hear more
shayde78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th January 2018, 09:30 PM   #20
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,713
Default

Koras were used in the south very early, and so were kukris.
Why they stopped using them is unknown to me, but maybe you can research it.
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.