Philippene/Malay (?) kris with naga

Klop · 11th February 2021, 08:18 PM

Dear members,

this kris crossed my path, the blade shape seems Philippene to me but the base with a delicate Naga and curved ganja with very nice greneng don't. Contrast forging pattern shows and should be very nice after cleaning. It shows age with some pitting and a few dings in the edges but nothing too serious

I'd appreciatie any thoughts on origin and age, and input on what kind of hilt and sheath this should have!

Kind regards,
Eric.

Rick · 11th February 2021, 09:46 PM

This could be a Malay Sundang.
Try using those words in our search engine and list ethnographic weapons as the forum to search.
IIRC Malay sundangs can be found with a round peksi or tang whereas the Moro kris usually has a flat tang.

Battara · 12th February 2021, 02:06 AM

Total agreement with Rick.

Ian · 12th February 2021, 12:17 PM

Yep, I agree. Malay not Filipino.

Klop · 12th February 2021, 09:12 PM

thanks gentlemen! I have scanned the posts with sundang (there's a lot to read) and will dive deeper into it later, interesting new area for me.

In the pictures of examples I didn't see a naga head like this, doesn't appear to be a textbook example.

The peksi starts round at the base but is forged square, some remnants of resin on it. About the hole behind the naga mouth, do you think this is meant for a baca-baca or just decorative?

Klop · 12th February 2021, 09:22 PM

oh and what I forgot, any idea's on which part of Malaysia? North/north east Borneo?

Kind regards,
Eric.

David · 13th February 2021, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

This could be a Malay Sundang.
Try using those words in our search engine and list ethnographic weapons as the forum to search.
IIRC Malay sundangs can be found with a round peksi or tang whereas the Moro kris usually has a flat tang.

hmmm...i don't really have any doubt about that Rick. Should we move this to the keris forum? It is not a Moro kris IMVHO.

Klop · 13th February 2021, 09:05 PM

Hello Gents,

thanks for the additional input.

the ganja is indeed a separate piece, after some mild cleaning the pattern is more clear on the entire blade. Interesting feature at the tip is that the pattern runs to one edge and a separate dot in the tip is visible on both sides.

At this moment I don't have a container big enough but I'm certainly going to give this a bath in lemon juice to clean the rust and etch it, should be nice.

Kind regards, Eric

David · 17th February 2021, 08:02 PM

Hi Eric. Thanks for the additional photographs.
This is definitely a sundang of Indonesian though it is difficult for me personally to pinpoint origin. If it came with original dress it might be easier. I know Kai has suggested Madura, but i am having a hard time seeing that. If i were forced to make a guess i might suggest Sumatra. It is a lovely sundang though. It would be great to see it with some new clothe. I'm not sure that you have access to the anyone in Holland to do that kind of work though. I personally would hesitate sending it back to Indonesia to a mranggi, but maybe you could find someone willing to work from line drawings and tracings of the blade and do the finishing work at home.

Klop · 18th February 2021, 08:53 PM

Hi David,

Indeed, I won't be sending this piece anywhere but at least it needs a handle. A sheath is of secundary importance to me (might be relatively simple just like shirasaya) but I always like to have a decent grip to hold a blade.

It won't be soon but I think I can produce something that would do the job, allthough I doubt I can find the lovely original striped wood. Second best would be a piece of teak which is easy to source - table leg .

Kind regards,
Eric.

11th February 2021, 08:18 PM	#1
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 57	Philippene/Malay (?) kris with naga Dear members, this kris crossed my path, the blade shape seems Philippene to me but the base with a delicate Naga and curved ganja with very nice greneng don't. Contrast forging pattern shows and should be very nice after cleaning. It shows age with some pitting and a few dings in the edges but nothing too serious I'd appreciatie any thoughts on origin and age, and input on what kind of hilt and sheath this should have! Kind regards, Eric. Attached Images

13th February 2021, 09:05 PM	#8
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 57	Hello Gents, thanks for the additional input. the ganja is indeed a separate piece, after some mild cleaning the pattern is more clear on the entire blade. Interesting feature at the tip is that the pattern runs to one edge and a separate dot in the tip is visible on both sides. At this moment I don't have a container big enough but I'm certainly going to give this a bath in lemon juice to clean the rust and etch it, should be nice. Kind regards, Eric Attached Images

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11th February 2021, 09:46 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	This could be a Malay Sundang. Try using those words in our search engine and list ethnographic weapons as the forum to search. IIRC Malay sundangs can be found with a round peksi or tang whereas the Moro kris usually has a flat tang.

12th February 2021, 02:06 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Total agreement with Rick.

12th February 2021, 12:17 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	Yep, I agree. Malay not Filipino.

12th February 2021, 09:12 PM	#5
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 57	thanks gentlemen! I have scanned the posts with sundang (there's a lot to read) and will dive deeper into it later, interesting new area for me. In the pictures of examples I didn't see a naga head like this, doesn't appear to be a textbook example. The peksi starts round at the base but is forged square, some remnants of resin on it. About the hole behind the naga mouth, do you think this is meant for a baca-baca or just decorative?

12th February 2021, 09:22 PM	#6
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 57	oh and what I forgot, any idea's on which part of Malaysia? North/north east Borneo? Kind regards, Eric.

17th February 2021, 08:02 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	Hi Eric. Thanks for the additional photographs. This is definitely a sundang of Indonesian though it is difficult for me personally to pinpoint origin. If it came with original dress it might be easier. I know Kai has suggested Madura, but i am having a hard time seeing that. If i were forced to make a guess i might suggest Sumatra. It is a lovely sundang though. It would be great to see it with some new clothe. I'm not sure that you have access to the anyone in Holland to do that kind of work though. I personally would hesitate sending it back to Indonesia to a mranggi, but maybe you could find someone willing to work from line drawings and tracings of the blade and do the finishing work at home.

18th February 2021, 08:53 PM	#10
Klop Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 57	Hi David, Indeed, I won't be sending this piece anywhere but at least it needs a handle. A sheath is of secundary importance to me (might be relatively simple just like shirasaya) but I always like to have a decent grip to hold a blade. It won't be soon but I think I can produce something that would do the job, allthough I doubt I can find the lovely original striped wood. Second best would be a piece of teak which is easy to source - table leg . Kind regards, Eric.