Scottish Skean Dhu

blue lander · 26th October 2016, 07:31 PM

Is there a significance to the hilt being black? I ask because I've been reading through the Irish "National Folklore Collection", and several stories involve using a "black handled knife" to break a curse or other "magic". It makes me wonder if there's some cultural significance to black handled knives in Celtic cultures.

Here are some examples of stories featuring a black handled knife:

http://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=black+handled+knife

Norman McCormick · 26th October 2016, 07:52 PM

Hi,
Traditionally, and I use the term in its broadest sense, Sgian Dhu and sometimes Dirk hilts are made with bog oak which as the name suggests is oak that has been in a bog for a very long time, hard and durable takes carving well and dark brown or black. As in all cultures that relied heavily on nature and its vagaries Celtic, Nordic etc., most things had a 'supernatural' significance as well as a day to day significance so I suspect a well known wood such as oak that came from a bog, which in itself had a supernatural aspect e.g. possible ritual human sacrifice, hence the Scandinavian and Irish bog bodies, could well have a special ritualistic significance but I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question there just isn't the archeological evidence as far as I'm aware. I've most definitely been wrong before so who knows.
Regards,
Norman.

blue lander · 26th October 2016, 09:59 PM

That makes sense, thank you. If I find a more specific explanation in these Irish folktales I'll be sure to post it. So far two stories have used them for breaking curses, two for scaring off fairies, and a handful say they need to be used when operating on sick livestock.

mariusgmioc · 29th October 2016, 10:26 PM

Hello,

The reason why the handle is black is because it was supposed to be a concealed knife, hence the name "knife black/concealed."

But you can find a quite complete and well written explanation on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian-dubh

blue lander · 1st November 2016, 09:27 PM

This site has some information about black handled knives in Cretan folklore

http://bryanashen.blogspot.com/2012/...-evil.html?m=1

It seems very poorly researched though, to put it gently.

kronckew · 1st November 2016, 09:43 PM

hmm, the site is using one of my photos of an ebony gripped opinel folder, next to a rather distinctive ruler i sometimes place in photos for reference. the black plastic scabbard comes from a late 20th c. cretian knife i have, in fact, here is the uncropped original photo.

i used it here in this thread. i must assume they borrowed it from us here. the ruler was given to me by my nephew, sam, who belonged to the UAW local in huntsville, alabama.

oddly, they cut off the cretian knife that they talk about next to the photo, and leave the french folder that has no connection and in no way fits the scabbard. i have another opinel just like it in olive wood, the fact that ebony is black is coincidental & has nothing to do with hiding the knife for stealthy use and which comes in a variety of sizes and colours.

asomotif · 3rd September 2021, 01:11 PM

Just for sharing.

I recently visited "Huis Doorn" where the former German emperor Wilhelm 2 resided after his abdication in 1918.
I saw this small scottisch dagger on display and was told that it was worn by Wilhelm 2 when he visited the United Kingdom in 1860's as a child.

Best regards,
Willem

kronckew · 3rd September 2021, 03:39 PM

Classy scottish dirk, sans scabbard though.

Norman McCormick · 3rd September 2021, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Just for sharing.

I recently visited "Huis Doorn" where the former German emperor Wilhelm 2 resided after his abdication in 1918.
I saw this small scottisch dagger on display and was told that it was worn by Wilhelm 2 when he visited the United Kingdom in 1890's as a child.

Best regards,
Willem

Hi,
The Kaiser would have been in his thirties in the 1890's

Regards,
Norman.

26th October 2016, 07:31 PM	#1
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Is there a significance to the hilt being black? I ask because I've been reading through the Irish "National Folklore Collection", and several stories involve using a "black handled knife" to break a curse or other "magic". It makes me wonder if there's some cultural significance to black handled knives in Celtic cultures. Here are some examples of stories featuring a black handled knife: http://www.duchas.ie/en/src?q=black+handled+knife Last edited by blue lander; 26th October 2016 at 07:41 PM.

1st November 2016, 09:43 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	hmm, the site is using one of my photos of an ebony gripped opinel folder, next to a rather distinctive ruler i sometimes place in photos for reference. the black plastic scabbard comes from a late 20th c. cretian knife i have, in fact, here is the uncropped original photo. i used it here in this thread. i must assume they borrowed it from us here. the ruler was given to me by my nephew, sam, who belonged to the UAW local in huntsville, alabama. oddly, they cut off the cretian knife that they talk about next to the photo, and leave the french folder that has no connection and in no way fits the scabbard. i have another opinel just like it in olive wood, the fact that ebony is black is coincidental & has nothing to do with hiding the knife for stealthy use and which comes in a variety of sizes and colours. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 1st November 2016 at 09:59 PM.

3rd September 2021, 01:11 PM	#7
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Just for sharing. I recently visited "Huis Doorn" where the former German emperor Wilhelm 2 resided after his abdication in 1918. I saw this small scottisch dagger on display and was told that it was worn by Wilhelm 2 when he visited the United Kingdom in 1860's as a child. Best regards, Willem Attached Images Last edited by asomotif; 3rd September 2021 at 09:42 PM.

26th October 2016, 07:52 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,577	Hi, Traditionally, and I use the term in its broadest sense, Sgian Dhu and sometimes Dirk hilts are made with bog oak which as the name suggests is oak that has been in a bog for a very long time, hard and durable takes carving well and dark brown or black. As in all cultures that relied heavily on nature and its vagaries Celtic, Nordic etc., most things had a 'supernatural' significance as well as a day to day significance so I suspect a well known wood such as oak that came from a bog, which in itself had a supernatural aspect e.g. possible ritual human sacrifice, hence the Scandinavian and Irish bog bodies, could well have a special ritualistic significance but I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question there just isn't the archeological evidence as far as I'm aware. I've most definitely been wrong before so who knows. Regards, Norman.

26th October 2016, 09:59 PM	#3
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	That makes sense, thank you. If I find a more specific explanation in these Irish folktales I'll be sure to post it. So far two stories have used them for breaking curses, two for scaring off fairies, and a handful say they need to be used when operating on sick livestock.

29th October 2016, 10:26 PM	#4
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Hello, The reason why the handle is black is because it was supposed to be a concealed knife, hence the name "knife black/concealed." But you can find a quite complete and well written explanation on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgian-dubh

1st November 2016, 09:27 PM	#5
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	This site has some information about black handled knives in Cretan folklore http://bryanashen.blogspot.com/2012/...-evil.html?m=1 It seems very poorly researched though, to put it gently.

3rd September 2021, 03:39 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	Classy scottish dirk, sans scabbard though.