Masai Spear for comment and a few questions

katana · 18th April 2010, 02:58 PM

Acquired an old Masai spear, extremely well made and with great patination.
The spearhead has a 'chevron-like' detail, which I have never seen before, but found a similar spear on the 'sold' section of Artzi's site. The butt spike has a square section with line detailing .....has this any significance to the 'status' of the owner or has it another meaning.

If anyone has any idea as to age, or any other comments....please feel free to let me know, thank you Gentlemen.

Regards David

.

Martin Lubojacky · 18th April 2010, 05:31 PM

"The butt spike has a square section with line detailing .....has this any significance to the 'status' of the owner or has it another meaning "

Hi Katana,
I am not expert in spears, but it should be identification of age set and clan.

Also this long spear heads were "allegedly" produced after expansion of imports of rod iron from Europe (end 19/beg. 20th century). Mid 19th century spearheads should be more massive and shorter.

Regards,

Martin

katana · 22nd April 2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Hi Katana,
I am not expert in spears, but it should be identification of age set and clan.

Also this long spear heads were "allegedly" produced after expansion of imports of rod iron from Europe (end 19/beg. 20th century). Mid 19th century spearheads should be more massive and shorter.

Regards,

Martin

Hi Martin,
I wonder if the length and weight may help to date this spear ?

It is exactly 6 foot, (72 inches or 183cms) and weighs 1.5 kgs, the craftsmanship of the blacksmith seems superior to more recent examples.

Regards David

katana · 30th April 2010, 05:07 PM

I would be grateful if anyone can post some information regarding the notches/markings on Massai spears, in relation to rank etc. Also, not so noticeable... is a diagonal mark on 2 faces of the square, notched section of the spear butt .....significant ??

Kind Regards David

Tim Simmons · 1st May 2010, 05:09 PM

David here are three of mine with different forged spike parts. I have publications that suggest certain shapes of spear can denote the age status of the warrior, but no real solid comparative evidence or pictures are provided. The different finishes to the spike part might also denote a particular smith or region. I have three others, one with a square section but no indentations. The other two are plain. These spears can be magnificent the biggest blade one the three shown is 103cm long. It is a mystery to me why they do not out class such things as Kaskara with European blades in the market. They are no more common, quite a bit longer.

Tim Simmons · 1st May 2010, 07:05 PM

David taking another look at this spear. Not as impressive as two of the first shown earlier but still just over 6'. It has a similar chevron at the base of the blade and a line around the bottom of the socket. The spike part has a spiral line running down the socket. Sorry the pictures are rather poor but running out of daylight so have all the lights and flash on.

Martin Lubojacky · 2nd May 2010, 06:09 PM

Hi David,
I missed yor message of April 22. I do not know much about Masai spears, but you can find information in "African Arms and Armour" by Christopher Spring. Maybe it could be useful to find out age of the wooden shaft (museoarteescienza.com) ?
Regards,

Martin

Tim Simmons · 3rd May 2010, 05:30 PM

Perhaps the only way to tell if a long spear blade is made from imported rod which would make a good spear. Is to look at the blade closely for signs of folding in more steel/iron, in a way lamination {which turns so many on} really just very skilled forge welding building up the spear blade. That's got to be better than so many swords especially Kaskara.

katana · 4th May 2010, 09:18 PM

Hi Tim and Martin

,
thanks for the replies. Tim you've some very nice examples there

. I agree that the craftsmanship involved in the manufacture of these spearheads rival many a sword blade (albeit an 'untempered' one).

According to Spring, a number of this type of spear are made by Bantu blacksmiths for the Masai....I get the impression that the better quality ones are made by them.
There is information regarding the various warrior groups 'classification' via their shield's markings/colours, and although mentioned, spears are also...but with no descriptions/pictures of the markings.

There is evidence that the original meanings of the various markings is now lost amongst 'modern' Masai .....and that, today , coloured plastic bands are now used.

The suggestion here, is that, marked spear butts are likely older. And if correct, the spear would be more likely to have been used in a Lion hunt. Unexpectedly, I found a reference to the Long bladed Masai spear in Robert Wilkinson-Latham's "Swords"....

".....Spears with long tapering heads similar to a sword blade, short shafts and long ferrule were the weapons of the Masai and seem to be the most effective of spears...."

Kind Regards David

Apparently slavers travelling through Masai territory would trade iron and copper wire, beads etc for 'safe passage'. I have not found any reference to iron rods traded (but would be a better 'raw' material for the blacksmiths).

Tim Simmons · 5th May 2010, 05:48 PM

David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

katana · 5th May 2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

Hi Tim,
a number of references mentioned that the blades were untempered...however, I have just checked this one ....and its tempered

I believe mine is an example of the Bantu blacksmiths craft. Perhaps those produced by the Masai were untempered. I will try and 're-discover' the references I mentioned earlier. Are all yours tempered?

Best Regards David

kronckew · 5th May 2010, 09:00 PM

i've seen an old b&w video of an old masai lion hunt in which a spearman missed the lion & the spear bent dramatically. he retrieved it, straightened it and carried on. maybe a hardened and tempered spear like that could break rather than bend and a broken spear is useless.

also there is the old roman pilum reasoning, if used in warfare throwing a spear into an opponents shield where it would bend and encumber the enemy to force him to abandon the shield, or if missed would bend and render it incapable of being thrown back at it's owner until it hand been straightened, made sense.

Tim Simmons · 6th May 2010, 10:05 AM

All the steel spears I have are tempered. Some seem more so than others, like many swords. Even a smaller South African {Zulu type} spear I have the steel has been folded in the forge and has a good temper. I imaging the tempering of a long old Massai spear is more difficult and so results may well vary. I am sure we have all come across bent swords.

kronckew · 6th May 2010, 12:29 PM

just as a reminder of terminology:

When a metal is worked such as bending forming welding etc it hardens due to the process which is not desirable. To return the metal to its original state the metal is annealed usually by heating and slow cooling.

Tempering is a process that follows hardening Take a knife formed from a common high carbon steel and then heated to cherry red hot around 900 deg C and quenched in oil or water this makes the knife very hard but brittle

Annealing is softening the metal after work hardening
Tempering is reducing brittleness after quench hardening

Tempering is raising the knife temperature to around 250 deg C and again quenching in oil or water this reduces the brittleness but retains most of the hardness

the exact temperatures/quenching material, etc. depend on the composition of the steel involved.

differential hardening, as used on a khukuri for instance, has the steel heated to hardening temp, and just the edge is quenched, with the spine generally left to air cool and thus become tempered by the residual heat in the item. nepali kami's do that quench with just a teapot & boiling water by the way.

the whole process is better referred to as 'heat treatment' rather than as just 'tempering' which is a part of it rather than a stand-alone process.

katana · 9th May 2010, 03:20 PM

I've been thinking about the possibility that perhaps the 'tip' area may be tempered in the quench.....and the lower section left to perhaps air cool....or quenched, after the metal was cooler. This, I believe, would allow the tip to keep a sharper edge....but allow the lower section to bend to help prevent fracture ?? ...absorbing any unusual side-ways stresses.

Regards David

18th April 2010, 02:58 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Masai Spear for comment and a few questions Acquired an old Masai spear, extremely well made and with great patination. The spearhead has a 'chevron-like' detail, which I have never seen before, but found a similar spear on the 'sold' section of Artzi's site. The butt spike has a square section with line detailing .....has this any significance to the 'status' of the owner or has it another meaning. If anyone has any idea as to age, or any other comments....please feel free to let me know, thank you Gentlemen. Regards David . Attached Images

1st May 2010, 05:09 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	David here are three of mine with different forged spike parts. I have publications that suggest certain shapes of spear can denote the age status of the warrior, but no real solid comparative evidence or pictures are provided. The different finishes to the spike part might also denote a particular smith or region. I have three others, one with a square section but no indentations. The other two are plain. These spears can be magnificent the biggest blade one the three shown is 103cm long. It is a mystery to me why they do not out class such things as Kaskara with European blades in the market. They are no more common, quite a bit longer. Attached Images

1st May 2010, 07:05 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	David taking another look at this spear. Not as impressive as two of the first shown earlier but still just over 6'. It has a similar chevron at the base of the blade and a line around the bottom of the socket. The spike part has a spiral line running down the socket. Sorry the pictures are rather poor but running out of daylight so have all the lights and flash on. Attached Images

18th April 2010, 05:31 PM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	"The butt spike has a square section with line detailing .....has this any significance to the 'status' of the owner or has it another meaning " Hi Katana, I am not expert in spears, but it should be identification of age set and clan. Also this long spear heads were "allegedly" produced after expansion of imports of rod iron from Europe (end 19/beg. 20th century). Mid 19th century spearheads should be more massive and shorter. Regards, Martin

30th April 2010, 05:07 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I would be grateful if anyone can post some information regarding the notches/markings on Massai spears, in relation to rank etc. Also, not so noticeable... is a diagonal mark on 2 faces of the square, notched section of the spear butt .....significant ?? Kind Regards David

2nd May 2010, 06:09 PM	#7
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 836	Hi David, I missed yor message of April 22. I do not know much about Masai spears, but you can find information in "African Arms and Armour" by Christopher Spring. Maybe it could be useful to find out age of the wooden shaft (museoarteescienza.com) ? Regards, Martin

3rd May 2010, 05:30 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Perhaps the only way to tell if a long spear blade is made from imported rod which would make a good spear. Is to look at the blade closely for signs of folding in more steel/iron, in a way lamination {which turns so many on} really just very skilled forge welding building up the spear blade. That's got to be better than so many swords especially Kaskara.

4th May 2010, 09:18 PM	#9
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Tim and Martin , thanks for the replies. Tim you've some very nice examples there . I agree that the craftsmanship involved in the manufacture of these spearheads rival many a sword blade (albeit an 'untempered' one). According to Spring, a number of this type of spear are made by Bantu blacksmiths for the Masai....I get the impression that the better quality ones are made by them. There is information regarding the various warrior groups 'classification' via their shield's markings/colours, and although mentioned, spears are also...but with no descriptions/pictures of the markings. There is evidence that the original meanings of the various markings is now lost amongst 'modern' Masai .....and that, today , coloured plastic bands are now used. The suggestion here, is that, marked spear butts are likely older. And if correct, the spear would be more likely to have been used in a Lion hunt. Unexpectedly, I found a reference to the Long bladed Masai spear in Robert Wilkinson-Latham's "Swords".... ".....Spears with long tapering heads similar to a sword blade, short shafts and long ferrule were the weapons of the Masai and seem to be the most effective of spears...." Kind Regards David Apparently slavers travelling through Masai territory would trade iron and copper wire, beads etc for 'safe passage'. I have not found any reference to iron rods traded (but would be a better 'raw' material for the blacksmiths).

5th May 2010, 05:48 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	David what makes you say that spears are untempered?

5th May 2010, 09:00 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i've seen an old b&w video of an old masai lion hunt in which a spearman missed the lion & the spear bent dramatically. he retrieved it, straightened it and carried on. maybe a hardened and tempered spear like that could break rather than bend and a broken spear is useless. also there is the old roman pilum reasoning, if used in warfare throwing a spear into an opponents shield where it would bend and encumber the enemy to force him to abandon the shield, or if missed would bend and render it incapable of being thrown back at it's owner until it hand been straightened, made sense.

6th May 2010, 10:05 AM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	All the steel spears I have are tempered. Some seem more so than others, like many swords. Even a smaller South African {Zulu type} spear I have the steel has been folded in the forge and has a good temper. I imaging the tempering of a long old Massai spear is more difficult and so results may well vary. I am sure we have all come across bent swords.

6th May 2010, 12:29 PM	#14
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	just as a reminder of terminology: When a metal is worked such as bending forming welding etc it hardens due to the process which is not desirable. To return the metal to its original state the metal is annealed usually by heating and slow cooling. Tempering is a process that follows hardening Take a knife formed from a common high carbon steel and then heated to cherry red hot around 900 deg C and quenched in oil or water this makes the knife very hard but brittle Annealing is softening the metal after work hardening Tempering is reducing brittleness after quench hardening Tempering is raising the knife temperature to around 250 deg C and again quenching in oil or water this reduces the brittleness but retains most of the hardness the exact temperatures/quenching material, etc. depend on the composition of the steel involved. differential hardening, as used on a khukuri for instance, has the steel heated to hardening temp, and just the edge is quenched, with the spine generally left to air cool and thus become tempered by the residual heat in the item. nepali kami's do that quench with just a teapot & boiling water by the way. the whole process is better referred to as 'heat treatment' rather than as just 'tempering' which is a part of it rather than a stand-alone process.

9th May 2010, 03:20 PM	#15
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I've been thinking about the possibility that perhaps the 'tip' area may be tempered in the quench.....and the lower section left to perhaps air cool....or quenched, after the metal was cooler. This, I believe, would allow the tip to keep a sharper edge....but allow the lower section to bend to help prevent fracture ?? ...absorbing any unusual side-ways stresses. Regards David