Horn Handled Silver Mounted Yataghan HELP!!

Norman McCormick · 12th January 2008, 07:04 PM

Hi,
Today was wet and miserable so my wife and I decided to go to the local auction house and I came back with this along with a small dagger paired in the same lot. This is definately outside my sphere of knowledge so please as much info as you can, I'm especially keen to know what the inscriptions mean. The sword is quite grubby so any help and advice as to cleaning and care also wanted. Will post dagger separately.
Regards,
Norman.

ariel · 12th January 2008, 08:37 PM

Not bad for a rainy day:-)
I guess it is most likely to be Balkan, 19th cen. I could not discent a date.
Interesting bolster: looks like plain silver. Turks used it quite often and it looks very elegant.

Norman McCormick · 12th January 2008, 09:01 PM

One of those happened to be in the right place at the right time scenarios. Wife had gone clothes shopping in the January sales yesterday so she couldn't really start one of those " not another one " dialogues, plus no one seemed that interested as it was a general antiques sale and catalogued between a porcelain figure and a plate therefore price seemed pretty good I think. I'll go back to the auction house but I bet the opportunity won't happen again for the next ten years, tis a pity.
Regards,
Norman.

TVV · 12th January 2008, 11:03 PM

Nice yataghan, and I agree with Ariel that it is Balkan. I think there is a date, but I cannot make it out. I can also see an "amale" in there, but no idea of what the name of the maker is. Some of these had damascus blades - you can try to do a small etch and who knows, you may turn out to be really lucky, especially if you managed to acquire the yataghan at a resonable price.
Regards,
Teodor

Norman McCormick · 14th January 2008, 04:25 PM

Hi,
Thanks for the replies. Could you elaborate with regard to etching. The decoration on the blade looks to be inlaid silver if the blade were etched would that mean that the decoration would blend into the background? Was the blade treated in any way originally to make the silver inlay stand out, some form of blueing etc? Does anyone have a good photo of a scabbard that would have been with a sword of this type?
Regards,
Norman.

TVV · 14th January 2008, 06:20 PM

Ariel is the expert when it comes to etching blades in order to reveal damascus patterns. I personally use diluted warm vinegar, and I have a friend who uses wine (cheap one of course, God forbid wasting a good bottle

).
This hread has examples with scabbards, although the scabbards are not in good shape:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4904

Regards,
Teodor

Zifir · 16th January 2008, 11:13 PM

Inscription and translation (a very crude one) as follows;

1st picture:

amel-i Ömer, sahib Halil Ağa / made by Ömer, owner Halil Agha

2nd picture:

Devleteyn babına olsun ey mir-i mu'teber / Let both this world and the other be at your door, O beloved Emir

Düşmanın bağrını delsin daima bu tığ-ı teber / Let this sword always pierce the bosom of your enemy

Norman McCormick · 16th January 2008, 11:44 PM

Zifir, many thanks for the translation it makes the sword a much more personal item and not just any blade. I am aware that there is sometimes a date on Yataghans if you are not able to see the necessary part of the blade in my photographs I will re-photograph if necessary, in saying that I have checked and can find no other calligraphy other than that shown. Another member thought that the date was on the blade but could not quite make it out. If there is no date can you hazard a guess as to when and where the sword was made.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 19th January 2008, 07:06 PM

Hi Zifir, some better photographs as promised.
Regards,
Norman.

Norman McCormick · 19th January 2008, 07:10 PM

Forgot to say, the background to the silver decoration is either brass or gold but I'll have to do some gentle cleaning to check fully.
Regards,
Norman.

12th January 2008, 07:04 PM	#1
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Horn Handled Silver Mounted Yataghan HELP!! Hi, Today was wet and miserable so my wife and I decided to go to the local auction house and I came back with this along with a small dagger paired in the same lot. This is definately outside my sphere of knowledge so please as much info as you can, I'm especially keen to know what the inscriptions mean. The sword is quite grubby so any help and advice as to cleaning and care also wanted. Will post dagger separately. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

19th January 2008, 07:06 PM	#9
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi Zifir, some better photographs as promised. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

12th January 2008, 08:37 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Not bad for a rainy day:-) I guess it is most likely to be Balkan, 19th cen. I could not discent a date. Interesting bolster: looks like plain silver. Turks used it quite often and it looks very elegant.

12th January 2008, 09:01 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	One of those happened to be in the right place at the right time scenarios. Wife had gone clothes shopping in the January sales yesterday so she couldn't really start one of those " not another one " dialogues, plus no one seemed that interested as it was a general antiques sale and catalogued between a porcelain figure and a plate therefore price seemed pretty good I think. I'll go back to the auction house but I bet the opportunity won't happen again for the next ten years, tis a pity. Regards, Norman.

12th January 2008, 11:03 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	Nice yataghan, and I agree with Ariel that it is Balkan. I think there is a date, but I cannot make it out. I can also see an "amale" in there, but no idea of what the name of the maker is. Some of these had damascus blades - you can try to do a small etch and who knows, you may turn out to be really lucky, especially if you managed to acquire the yataghan at a resonable price. Regards, Teodor

14th January 2008, 04:25 PM	#5
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Hi, Thanks for the replies. Could you elaborate with regard to etching. The decoration on the blade looks to be inlaid silver if the blade were etched would that mean that the decoration would blend into the background? Was the blade treated in any way originally to make the silver inlay stand out, some form of blueing etc? Does anyone have a good photo of a scabbard that would have been with a sword of this type? Regards, Norman.

14th January 2008, 06:20 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,598	Ariel is the expert when it comes to etching blades in order to reveal damascus patterns. I personally use diluted warm vinegar, and I have a friend who uses wine (cheap one of course, God forbid wasting a good bottle ). This hread has examples with scabbards, although the scabbards are not in good shape: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4904 Regards, Teodor

16th January 2008, 11:13 PM	#7
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Inscription and translation (a very crude one) as follows; 1st picture: amel-i Ömer, sahib Halil Ağa / made by Ömer, owner Halil Agha 2nd picture: Devleteyn babına olsun ey mir-i mu'teber / Let both this world and the other be at your door, O beloved Emir Düşmanın bağrını delsin daima bu tığ-ı teber / Let this sword always pierce the bosom of your enemy

16th January 2008, 11:44 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Zifir, many thanks for the translation it makes the sword a much more personal item and not just any blade. I am aware that there is sometimes a date on Yataghans if you are not able to see the necessary part of the blade in my photographs I will re-photograph if necessary, in saying that I have checked and can find no other calligraphy other than that shown. Another member thought that the date was on the blade but could not quite make it out. If there is no date can you hazard a guess as to when and where the sword was made. Regards, Norman.

19th January 2008, 07:10 PM	#10
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,575	Forgot to say, the background to the silver decoration is either brass or gold but I'll have to do some gentle cleaning to check fully. Regards, Norman.