South-East Asian sword with a Persian trade blade for discussion

Jens Nordlunde · 16th March 2018, 05:24 PM

Hello Tatyana,
Yes the blade really is interesting, and the text seem to be on a number of blades. The text translates a bit differently, but that must be how the translater sees it.
See A Passion for Indian Arms, pp. 219-221. Here a detail is shown.

Tatyana Dianova · 16th March 2018, 10:14 PM

Great info on these blades (and great swords too)!
The Sumatra story seems true for my sword, since Kai means the lacquer work is Sumatran.
The Caucasian origin is a new theory for me, but I still wait for my copy of Rajput arms.
I have a feeling that these blades are always of good quality and made of good Wootz. They have similar decoration and inscriptions, but the general geometry and the fullers vary greatly, which makes me wonder.

Rick · 17th March 2018, 12:27 AM

Is that a scarf weld I see there?
Not uncommon with wootz blades.

Ferguson · 17th March 2018, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Is that a scarf weld I see there?
Not uncommon with wootz blades.

Rick,
Being a retired engineer/machinist, it looks like a modern weld, either oxy acetylene, or even electric arc. But I could be wrong.
Interesting sword!

Steve

Tatyana Dianova · 17th March 2018, 09:31 PM

It is definitely a repair, not a scarf weld.

Jens Nordlunde · 17th March 2018, 10:30 PM

Drabant1701,
The kilij you show. How long is the blade and how broad? It looks like an inpressive blade, and it is a very nice sword.

Drabant1701 · 18th March 2018, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Drabant1701,
The kilij you show. How long is the blade and how broad? It looks like an inpressive blade, and it is a very nice sword.

Im posting a picture with the blade measurments. The whole sword is 87cm long.

ariel · 18th March 2018, 01:05 PM

Beautiful examples!

I join Steve and Tatiana: it is repair, and likely modern welding.
That was a problem with wootz blades: they were gorgeous but brittle. I don’t remember the source, but there is an old casually-reported story of a young Caucasian prince whose Persian wootz blade fell on the floor and broke in half. Al-Biruni mentioned a tendency of wootz blades to crack and break in very cold weather. I have seen several re-welded wootz swords.

I imagine what could have happened in the heat of a battle, if a warrior attempted to parry a blow with his sword or tried to hit a heavily armored opponent.

No wonder why the locals of every location, from India to Aravia, readily exchanged their wootz blades for European ones.

They were mostly suitable for daggers, but the long-bladed weapons were only questionably reliable.

16th March 2018, 05:24 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hello Tatyana, Yes the blade really is interesting, and the text seem to be on a number of blades. The text translates a bit differently, but that must be how the translater sees it. See A Passion for Indian Arms, pp. 219-221. Here a detail is shown. Attached Images

16th March 2018, 10:14 PM	#2
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 678	Great info on these blades (and great swords too)! The Sumatra story seems true for my sword, since Kai means the lacquer work is Sumatran. The Caucasian origin is a new theory for me, but I still wait for my copy of Rajput arms. I have a feeling that these blades are always of good quality and made of good Wootz. They have similar decoration and inscriptions, but the general geometry and the fullers vary greatly, which makes me wonder.

17th March 2018, 12:27 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Is that a scarf weld I see there? Not uncommon with wootz blades.

17th March 2018, 09:31 PM	#5
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 678	It is definitely a repair, not a scarf weld.

17th March 2018, 10:30 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Drabant1701, The kilij you show. How long is the blade and how broad? It looks like an inpressive blade, and it is a very nice sword.

18th March 2018, 01:05 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Beautiful examples! I join Steve and Tatiana: it is repair, and likely modern welding. That was a problem with wootz blades: they were gorgeous but brittle. I don’t remember the source, but there is an old casually-reported story of a young Caucasian prince whose Persian wootz blade fell on the floor and broke in half. Al-Biruni mentioned a tendency of wootz blades to crack and break in very cold weather. I have seen several re-welded wootz swords. I imagine what could have happened in the heat of a battle, if a warrior attempted to parry a blow with his sword or tried to hit a heavily armored opponent. No wonder why the locals of every location, from India to Aravia, readily exchanged their wootz blades for European ones. They were mostly suitable for daggers, but the long-bladed weapons were only questionably reliable.