2 SWORDS FROM ASIA FOR ID

Cerjak · 25th February 2012, 10:48 PM

who could tell me more about this 2 swords I just bought from auction.
Any comment will be welcome.
CERJAK

Cerjak · 25th February 2012, 10:54 PM

THE SECOND ONE

David · 25th February 2012, 11:46 PM

These are Dha AFAIK, but i will let the Dha enthusiasts on these boards give you details on them. They look like nice ones to my under educated eyes.

Stan S. · 26th February 2012, 01:36 AM

Yes, these are dhas and both are of very good quality

kahnjar1 · 26th February 2012, 03:46 AM

Subject to confirmation from others, I believe the first one is Thai. The second one is Yunnan I think.
Both nice pieces.
Regards Stu (ex dha fanatic)

Rick · 26th February 2012, 04:05 AM

http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/

Nathaniel · 26th February 2012, 04:23 AM

Calling Mark B!!!

Nathaniel · 26th February 2012, 04:23 AM

I never get tired of seeing these! Thanks for sharing, Cerjak!

Nathaniel · 26th February 2012, 04:26 AM

Or Andrew W???

DhaDha · 27th February 2012, 06:27 AM

These are nice. Agree, Thai and Yunnan. I think the Thai sword has some good age too.

laEspadaAncha · 27th February 2012, 06:56 AM

Am I looking at three different metals in the hilt, or different washes of the same metal?

Nice dhas, both of them, IMO...

Nathaniel · 28th February 2012, 03:01 AM

I would agree the 2nd one's origin could easily point to Yunnan, but I think it's better to be more broad. Based on it's obvious Chinese motifs, it could easily be from a Tai group found in Burma, Siam, or Laos along the Chinese border, where language, culture and clothing, etc is heavily Chinese influenced.

It's interesting to see the star shape on the side of the mouth of the scabbard...it almost looks like a "star of Anise"

Cerjak · 29th February 2012, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Am I looking at three different metals in the hilt, or different washes of the same metal?

Nice dhas, both of them, IMO...

The hilt is madein 3 different metals

Andrew · 29th February 2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Subject to confirmation from others, I believe the first one is Thai. The second one is Yunnan I think.
Both nice pieces.
Regards Stu (ex dha fanatic)

Agree--first one is Thai. Photos aren't great, but I believe the sword is older than the scabbard, which looks like a later addition.

Second one is Northern Thai/Southern Yunnan, China. I have a very similar example in my collection, which can be seen here (#252):

http://www.arscives.com/historysteel....swordlist.htm

Both look like early-mid 20th century but, again, photos aren't great.

Andrew · 1st March 2012, 02:14 PM

A friend has gently pointed out to me off-list that I have made an error.

Here is what he sent me, and I agree--I was hasty in my analysis of that first sword.

Quote:

I read yer comments on the forum and i must disagree with yer dating - disinformation, the siamese lanna darb at the forum with the yunnan dha is actualy a later 18thc piece '' after ayutthaya '', the habaki fitting on the blade had been fazed out by early 19th (although is being used again now) and the more crude silver work here on the repousse hilt is typical of the early rattanakosin pieces later 18thc to very early 19th before they refined the art of reppouse silver on swords and the new style was just coming about, copper silver and samrit were rank symbols and this was liklely a mandarins sword of lower rank, never used and carried only as a ranking status symbol as most of the silver fitted darbs were.

Cerjak · 1st February 2015, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

who could tell me more about this 2 swords I just bought from auction.
Any comment will be welcome.
CERJAK

more pics

Sajen · 1st February 2015, 12:16 PM

Hello Cerjak,

two very nice swords, congrats.

I like special the Thai daab and I agree that the scabbard is a later replacement. But I would be glad to have such a nice Yunnan dha.

Regards,
Detlef

rvr · 15th February 2015, 02:42 PM

Great awords, thanks for posting. I am a new member (But been reading here for some time) and a military knife collector who has developed a serieus interest in these Dha's and learning more with every post i read. Hopefully i have just aquired my first proper Dha.....will know tomorrow and will post pictures when i receive it from Thailand and kindlly ask for more info on the forum. Lot to read, lot to learn!

Regards

Ian · 20th February 2015, 01:48 PM

Cerjak:

I'm just coming to this thread after traveling in Australia the last three weeks.

Two very nice Northern Thai/Yunnan daab. Of the two, the first is by far the more interesting and older. As noted in Andrew's second post, it is from the early Rattanakosin period with features harking back to an earlier Ayutthaya style. These are uncommon swords to find and as a result can be fairly pricey. The habaki-like feature is interesting and again uncommon to find on Thai daab. It likely reflects a minor Japanese presence in Thailand in the 18th and 19th C, with copying of katana elements into the local daab style. The influence of Japanese sword making can also be seen in higher quality pieces made in the 19th C--many of the "royal" daab made in the 19th C and found in Thai museums seem to have Japanese elements in their blade style and hilts.

The second one is of somewhat later manufacture, and daab are still being made in this style. I think it is most likely of Husa manufacture (from southern Yunnan adjacent to the Shan States of Myanmar). The Husa are identified with the Shan who are the major ethnic group in that area. Your second example is found among the Shan and Kachin peoples living in Myanmar (Burma), as well as those of Tai/Shan origin in northern Thailand.

BTW, the sheath associated with your first example is a cheaply made 20th C example that does not befit this sword. I would not display such a fine sword with that sheath--a poor marriage IMO.

Regards,

Ian.

Cerjak · 20th February 2015, 02:08 PM

Hi Ian

Thank you for your comment I agree that it is a poor qualitity and later scabbard , so only good to protect the blade and nothing else !

Best

Cerjak

25th February 2012, 10:48 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	2 SWORDS FROM ASIA FOR ID who could tell me more about this 2 swords I just bought from auction. Any comment will be welcome. CERJAK Attached Images

28th February 2012, 03:01 AM	#12
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	I would agree the 2nd one's origin could easily point to Yunnan, but I think it's better to be more broad. Based on it's obvious Chinese motifs, it could easily be from a Tai group found in Burma, Siam, or Laos along the Chinese border, where language, culture and clothing, etc is heavily Chinese influenced. It's interesting to see the star shape on the side of the mouth of the scabbard...it almost looks like a "star of Anise" Attached Images Last edited by Nathaniel; 28th February 2012 at 03:50 AM.

25th February 2012, 10:54 PM	#2
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	THE SECOND THE SECOND ONE Attached Images

25th February 2012, 11:46 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,024	These are Dha AFAIK, but i will let the Dha enthusiasts on these boards give you details on them. They look like nice ones to my under educated eyes.

26th February 2012, 01:36 AM	#4
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	Yes, these are dhas and both are of very good quality

26th February 2012, 03:46 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,728	Subject to confirmation from others, I believe the first one is Thai. The second one is Yunnan I think. Both nice pieces. Regards Stu (ex dha fanatic)

26th February 2012, 04:05 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,262	http://dharesearch.bowditch.us/

26th February 2012, 04:23 AM	#7
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Calling Mark B!!!

26th February 2012, 04:26 AM	#9
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Or Andrew W???

27th February 2012, 06:27 AM	#10
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 163	These are nice. Agree, Thai and Yunnan. I think the Thai sword has some good age too.

27th February 2012, 06:56 AM	#11
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Am I looking at three different metals in the hilt, or different washes of the same metal? Nice dhas, both of them, IMO...

1st February 2015, 12:16 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,483	Hello Cerjak, two very nice swords, congrats. I like special the Thai daab and I agree that the scabbard is a later replacement. But I would be glad to have such a nice Yunnan dha. Regards, Detlef

15th February 2015, 02:42 PM	#18
rvr Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 7	Great awords, thanks for posting. I am a new member (But been reading here for some time) and a military knife collector who has developed a serieus interest in these Dha's and learning more with every post i read. Hopefully i have just aquired my first proper Dha.....will know tomorrow and will post pictures when i receive it from Thailand and kindlly ask for more info on the forum. Lot to read, lot to learn! Regards

20th February 2015, 01:48 PM	#19
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,028	Cerjak: I'm just coming to this thread after traveling in Australia the last three weeks. Two very nice Northern Thai/Yunnan daab. Of the two, the first is by far the more interesting and older. As noted in Andrew's second post, it is from the early Rattanakosin period with features harking back to an earlier Ayutthaya style. These are uncommon swords to find and as a result can be fairly pricey. The habaki-like feature is interesting and again uncommon to find on Thai daab. It likely reflects a minor Japanese presence in Thailand in the 18th and 19th C, with copying of katana elements into the local daab style. The influence of Japanese sword making can also be seen in higher quality pieces made in the 19th C--many of the "royal" daab made in the 19th C and found in Thai museums seem to have Japanese elements in their blade style and hilts. The second one is of somewhat later manufacture, and daab are still being made in this style. I think it is most likely of Husa manufacture (from southern Yunnan adjacent to the Shan States of Myanmar). The Husa are identified with the Shan who are the major ethnic group in that area. Your second example is found among the Shan and Kachin peoples living in Myanmar (Burma), as well as those of Tai/Shan origin in northern Thailand. BTW, the sheath associated with your first example is a cheaply made 20th C example that does not befit this sword. I would not display such a fine sword with that sheath--a poor marriage IMO. Regards, Ian.

20th February 2015, 02:08 PM	#20
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,064	Hi Ian Thank you for your comment I agree that it is a poor qualitity and later scabbard , so only good to protect the blade and nothing else ! Best Cerjak