A katar for comments

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd February 2008, 08:41 PM

Any comments on this katar are wecome

Lew · 3rd February 2008, 08:51 PM

Wow very nice. It has a similar grip to my copper one.

fernando · 3rd February 2008, 09:12 PM

Gorgeous piece, Jens.
What would be your coments ?
Fernando

Jens Nordlunde · 4th February 2008, 02:27 PM

That is a very nice copper hilt, and I believe your to be older than mine.

Fernando, this was an experiment. Many show a picture and write ‘please comment’, so I thought I would do the same to see who would comment and what they would write

.

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2008, 03:49 PM

Well done Jens!

I am always pleased to see the many extremely interesting weapons posted here, but often disappointed by 'look at this one' captions. There is a well established and outstanding core of knowledge here among not only the members, but clearly by readers who we always hope will join in the discussions. Gratefully most here openly share thier knowledge and by doing so promote active discussion with which we all learn more and gain perspective on the weapons being reviewed.To simply post something without personal observations that would give some thought on what makes the piece significant or what views are being sought is in my opinion, less than helpful. Naturally the case is quite different when an item is posted in response to a question or to illustrate a point in discussion.

That being said, I'm curious about the copper katar, which clearly has a very similar appearance to the example Jens posted. I must admit, I have seen very little use of copper as an overall hilt material, and would like to know more on this. We know of course that brass was a favored material in the Deccan to southern regions of India, but copper seems less represented.

All best regards,
Jim

Jim McDougall · 4th February 2008, 07:57 PM

So I decided to try to look it up. In my trusty companion, Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual", I found,
"...in Ayurvedic tradition copper placed in water then exposed to the sun is thought to increase power in the hand". (p.196).

It is noted that the copper colored weapons seem to come from Tanjore, and the grip is very similar to Jens' example.

While the copper color suggests Tanjore (these are of course similar in structure to steel examples from there), many of the hilt characteristics suggest Deccani forms, but I cannot find an exact match to the grip shape in either Elgood or Stone.

Battara · 4th February 2008, 10:45 PM

As to Jen's katar - looks near pristine!

And southern Indian with great and intact koftgari. Is the blade wootz?

Sikh_soldier · 5th February 2008, 12:22 AM

Hi jens, I do not know much about age, origin etc,

But from an aesthetical evaluation I love the way that the construction of this piece is curvilinear, without any straight sides at all.
It shows how much thought went into the making.

Fernando's piece is also beautiful, I like the colour and it is very similiar to Jens, or actually if it is older, Jen's is similiar to Fernando's!

Jim McDougall · 5th February 2008, 12:55 AM

I agree, these are both incredibly beautiful katars, but what intrigues me the most is the distinct grip design, as well as the curvature in the guards. It does seem that these characteristics may suggest a region in India from which they may be provenanced.

3rd February 2008, 08:41 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	A katar for comments Any comments on this katar are wecome Attached Images

3rd February 2008, 08:51 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Wow very nice. It has a similar grip to my copper one. Attached Images

4th February 2008, 02:27 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	That is a very nice copper hilt, and I believe your to be older than mine. Fernando, this was an experiment. Many show a picture and write ‘please comment’, so I thought I would do the same to see who would comment and what they would write.

3rd February 2008, 09:12 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Gorgeous piece, Jens. What would be your coments ? Fernando

4th February 2008, 03:49 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	Well done Jens! I am always pleased to see the many extremely interesting weapons posted here, but often disappointed by 'look at this one' captions. There is a well established and outstanding core of knowledge here among not only the members, but clearly by readers who we always hope will join in the discussions. Gratefully most here openly share thier knowledge and by doing so promote active discussion with which we all learn more and gain perspective on the weapons being reviewed.To simply post something without personal observations that would give some thought on what makes the piece significant or what views are being sought is in my opinion, less than helpful. Naturally the case is quite different when an item is posted in response to a question or to illustrate a point in discussion. That being said, I'm curious about the copper katar, which clearly has a very similar appearance to the example Jens posted. I must admit, I have seen very little use of copper as an overall hilt material, and would like to know more on this. We know of course that brass was a favored material in the Deccan to southern regions of India, but copper seems less represented. All best regards, Jim

4th February 2008, 07:57 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	So I decided to try to look it up. In my trusty companion, Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual", I found, "...in Ayurvedic tradition copper placed in water then exposed to the sun is thought to increase power in the hand". (p.196). It is noted that the copper colored weapons seem to come from Tanjore, and the grip is very similar to Jens' example. While the copper color suggests Tanjore (these are of course similar in structure to steel examples from there), many of the hilt characteristics suggest Deccani forms, but I cannot find an exact match to the grip shape in either Elgood or Stone.

4th February 2008, 10:45 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	As to Jen's katar - looks near pristine! And southern Indian with great and intact koftgari. Is the blade wootz?

5th February 2008, 12:22 AM	#8
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Hi jens, I do not know much about age, origin etc, But from an aesthetical evaluation I love the way that the construction of this piece is curvilinear, without any straight sides at all. It shows how much thought went into the making. Fernando's piece is also beautiful, I like the colour and it is very similiar to Jens, or actually if it is older, Jen's is similiar to Fernando's!

5th February 2008, 12:55 AM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,759	I agree, these are both incredibly beautiful katars, but what intrigues me the most is the distinct grip design, as well as the curvature in the guards. It does seem that these characteristics may suggest a region in India from which they may be provenanced.