Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 15th December 2011, 12:31 AM   #1
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 495
Default yataghan translation please

Hi, this yataghan belongs to a friend and these are the photos he sent to me! Thanks in advance for your translation help
Attached Images
    
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 12:44 AM   #2
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Hi Eftihis
tomorrow, I shall see with my translator, if (?) it's Arabic or Turkish
any way, allready I saw a date 1215 either ± 1800

lucky guy your friend, coze his yatagan it's just, beautiful, ivory, coral, very nice scabbard

all the best my friend

à +

Dom
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 02:56 AM   #3
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

IS that twistcore I see in the blade?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 04:25 PM   #4
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dom
Hi Eftihis
tomorrow, I shall see with my translator, if (?) it's Arabic or Turkish
the verdict is dropped,
the penalty is; it's not in Arabic

please ... "Zifir" ... HELP

à +

Dom
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 05:21 PM   #5
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
Default

Dom, I hear and obey , of course, it is also my pleasure to be any help to Efhitis.

It is one of the most common inscriptions on yatağans: the names of the "Seven Sleepers" Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş ve Kıtmir.

Efhitis, for the tuğra where the owners name is written, could you provide a closer look with a new picture?

The last inscription is Ali bin Muhammed, probably the name of the maker.

Also I have a naive question, probably everyone knows the answer, except me. When I am reading these inscriptions ,whenever I see the word amel-i (work of/made by) followed by a name, I always assumed that that's the person who made that yatağan. While going through the yatağan catalog of Istanbul Military Museum, I came across examples with inscriptions and readable stamps on them. For example on the stamp, it clearly says amel-i Abdullah but on the inscription it says amel-i Mustafa. Logical explanation is that blade was made by Abdullah and inscription and ornamentation were made by Mustafa. But how about the ones only with inscriptions? Should we assume that blade was made someone anonymous and the inscription was written by the person whose name is on the yatağan? I know this is not a crucial issue since in the absence of surnames, we cannot apparently determine major yatağan craftsmen and their work. Anyway, just the mumblings of a yatağan enthusiast

Best,
Zifir
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 06:18 PM   #6
Dom
Member
 
Dom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
Also I have a naive question, probably everyone knows the answer, except me.
YES ... FOR SURE ... I'll to beleive you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zifir
I know this is not a crucial issue since in the absence of surnames, we cannot apparently determine major yatağan craftsmen and their work. Anyway, just the mumblings of a yatağan enthusiast
Zifir, you are a lovely guy, it's every time a real pleasure,
to know, that you are never too far

don't underestimated your ability, and knowledge ...
the main problem is coming from the absence of "family name, or surname"
in the Arabic world, and sometimes also may be, in Islamic countries (who aren't obligatory Arab)
... you are aware


same thing, with the sign of swordsmith, blacksmith,
you have to have at least, the name for their father, to be able to establish a lignee, otherwise, it's hopeless
excepted some very rare case, no surname, sometimes a nickname

with my warmest regards

à +

Dom

Last edited by Lew; 15th December 2011 at 08:51 PM.
Dom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 07:52 PM   #7
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
Default

Thank you, Dom. I don't quite remember where I read it, but this sums things up pretty nicely: "bureaucracy is an art on making the possible impossible"
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th December 2011, 08:57 PM   #8
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 495
Default

Dom and Zifir, thank you very much for your help!
Battara, i havent handled the yataghan but its obvious from the photos that is "turkish ribbon" damascus steel.
Very interesting subject about the stamps of the yataghan makers. There must have been some sucessfull workshops with big production, because we often find blades with great similarity on shape, characteristics and ornamentation. Probably these blades were sold in many places, roughly finished and then the local workman was making ornamentation and the handle and also the decoration.
But for sure every stamp is different, because they are handmeda. Therefore the absence of surname is not a problem, if you observe closely 2 different for eg "hussein" If he is not the same Hussein, the stamp will be different, because it was made by a different person. DIfferent size, caligraphy, dept, etc...

By the way, great comment about the power of bureaucracy.... I hope the problems with surnames and passports end soon!
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2011, 09:45 AM   #9
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 495
Default

Dear Zifir,
here are the close ups!
have a look and in the thread about "islamic amulet" please!
Attached Images
  
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th December 2011, 08:31 AM   #10
Zifir
Member
 
Zifir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
Default

Hi efhitis,

Sahib Hazar Ağa (owner Hazar Agha).

I also saw the thread on the amulet you mentioned some time ago, but it is arabic. But I will give it a shot however incomplete.
Zifir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th December 2011, 09:24 AM   #11
eftihis
Member
 
eftihis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chania Crete Greece
Posts: 495
Default

Thank you very much Zifir!
eftihis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.