Tahiti Guard

KraVseR · 3rd June 2014, 12:25 PM

Hello! Who have any information about Tahiti Guard in XIX centure? What weapons was used by them?
I read, that in 1822 russian seamen presented for Tahiti guardians the uniforms of russians hussars. It's true, who now?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 14th June 2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraVseR

Hello! Who have any information about Tahiti Guard in XIX centure? What weapons was used by them?
I read, that in 1822 russian seamen presented for Tahiti guardians the uniforms of russians hussars. It's true, who now?

Yes !! The Russian sloop Ladoga was in Tahiti in about 1823 ... they provisioned there...and exchanged a lot of items mainly traditional Russian clothing, bonnets and uniforms etc etc... see http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home..._num_98_1_1924 This makes interesting reading ...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 15th June 2014, 07:07 PM

Amazing the information found online with search engines!! Nicely done Ibrahiim. It is so much different than the old days where one had to write to museums and hope for something more than a form letter, and waiting weeks to months for that.
Here on our forums all one has to do is use the search feature to access archived discussions associated with the topic at hand .

I am wondering KraVseR, what prompted this rather esoteric question, was there a weapon you have seen or acquired which brought this up? or is this simply a general question from your reading? What source was your reference?
Do you mean are there still Tahitian guards as a traditional unit? and what type uniforms and weapons did they use later? Probably French as I believe these islands became French protectorates.

Ironically the Russian hussar sabres of the period you note were based on French patterns, so there may not have been much difference.

KraVseR · 15th June 2014, 08:12 PM

Thank you!
I read about this on the Russian site, but did not believe it. There often spread fakes.

Jim McDougall · 16th June 2014, 03:14 AM

It seems that Russian naval expeditions were travelling through the Polynesian archipelagos c1816-24 mostly on scientific ventures toward Antarctica as well as collecting data on flora and fauna in these islands. There had been of course considerable presence already with the British in the previous century, but there was far more to be done.

I found an entry in "Russian Naval Enterprise Among the Tuamotus 1816-1826", G.R.Barratt , 'Journal de a Societe des Oceanistes", 1999, Issue 108, on p.42, from the ship 'Mirnyi (Capt. Lazarev) ...in contacts with the natives in July, 1820 it is noted that the chief was wearing (a gift) the "bright red uniform" of a Russian guardsman.

This seems to have been a singular incident and I did not find other notes in the text where any uniforms or weapons were given to natives notably. It does not seem anything other than somewhat strained interaction was taking place with these various Russian ships over years on various expeditions, mostly with natives wielding spears and clubs, but most curious on the European firearms.

It is most unclear to me why there would be Russian 'guards' aboard these vessels as these were military cuirassier, hussar and infantry units known as 'Life Guards' (so the classification is vague). The only one I could find with red uniform was indeed a hussar unit post Napoleonic .

The reference "Russian Military Swords 1801-1917" Eugene Mollo, 1969, gives good images of the 'Guard' swords for cuirassiers (pallashes) and the light cavalry sabres for hussars....however it would be futile to estimate which type we are looking for without more detail.

Since the French took over Tahiti and most of these islands in the 1830s and the fact that there does not seem to have been any meaningful diplomatic contacts with Russian vessels, it seems unlikely any type of Russian weapon presence carried forward in these regions, at least in notable consequence.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 16th June 2014, 06:33 AM

Jim ...The reference "Russian Military Swords 1801-1917" Eugene Mollo, 1969 is a cracker !

Here is a further reference about Lazerev...and his brother Andrei who skippered the Ladoga..in my previous post. Please see http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/laza...petrovich-2342

There are general references from the region but whether they are true or assumed I know not... of bartered weapons for provisions which, if true, would have seen some Russian/French weaponry changing hands (and apparently alcohol)

The Tahiti islanders had a range of tribal weapons clubs spears et al and it was noted (in some distant read document) that on one visit the Europeans mentioned that the ruler at the time had a shield ...wall mounted ...with a couple of pistols nailed to it !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 16th June 2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraVseR

Thank you!
I read about this on the Russian site, but did not believe it. There often spread fakes.

Just wondering about the popular interest in wargames, and if they get into detail like the weapons actually used. Here we focus on the weapons themselves rather than the strategy and tactics.

fernando · 16th June 2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Here we focus on the weapons themselves rather than the strategy and tactics.

Amen

KraVseR · 23rd June 2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

spears and clubs

May someone know what types of spears and clubs were used in Tahiti?
For example, war clubs from Samoa and Fiji have many differences. Tahitian weapons should also have differences?
Someone has photos/drawings of weapons of French Polynesia? This topic is not popular on the Internet.

3rd June 2014, 12:25 PM	#1
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Tahiti Guard Hello! Who have any information about Tahiti Guard in XIX centure? What weapons was used by them? I read, that in 1822 russian seamen presented for Tahiti guardians the uniforms of russians hussars. It's true, who now?

16th June 2014, 06:33 AM	#6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Jim ...The reference "Russian Military Swords 1801-1917" Eugene Mollo, 1969 is a cracker ! Here is a further reference about Lazerev...and his brother Andrei who skippered the Ladoga..in my previous post. Please see http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/laza...petrovich-2342 There are general references from the region but whether they are true or assumed I know not... of bartered weapons for provisions which, if true, would have seen some Russian/French weaponry changing hands (and apparently alcohol) The Tahiti islanders had a range of tribal weapons clubs spears et al and it was noted (in some distant read document) that on one visit the Europeans mentioned that the ruler at the time had a shield ...wall mounted ...with a couple of pistols nailed to it !! Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 16th June 2014 at 06:47 AM.

15th June 2014, 07:07 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Amazing the information found online with search engines!! Nicely done Ibrahiim. It is so much different than the old days where one had to write to museums and hope for something more than a form letter, and waiting weeks to months for that. Here on our forums all one has to do is use the search feature to access archived discussions associated with the topic at hand . I am wondering KraVseR, what prompted this rather esoteric question, was there a weapon you have seen or acquired which brought this up? or is this simply a general question from your reading? What source was your reference? Do you mean are there still Tahitian guards as a traditional unit? and what type uniforms and weapons did they use later? Probably French as I believe these islands became French protectorates. Ironically the Russian hussar sabres of the period you note were based on French patterns, so there may not have been much difference.

15th June 2014, 08:12 PM	#4
KraVseR Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ukraine Posts: 128	Thank you! I read about this on the Russian site, but did not believe it. There often spread fakes.

16th June 2014, 03:14 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	It seems that Russian naval expeditions were travelling through the Polynesian archipelagos c1816-24 mostly on scientific ventures toward Antarctica as well as collecting data on flora and fauna in these islands. There had been of course considerable presence already with the British in the previous century, but there was far more to be done. I found an entry in "Russian Naval Enterprise Among the Tuamotus 1816-1826", G.R.Barratt , 'Journal de a Societe des Oceanistes", 1999, Issue 108, on p.42, from the ship 'Mirnyi (Capt. Lazarev) ...in contacts with the natives in July, 1820 it is noted that the chief was wearing (a gift) the "bright red uniform" of a Russian guardsman. This seems to have been a singular incident and I did not find other notes in the text where any uniforms or weapons were given to natives notably. It does not seem anything other than somewhat strained interaction was taking place with these various Russian ships over years on various expeditions, mostly with natives wielding spears and clubs, but most curious on the European firearms. It is most unclear to me why there would be Russian 'guards' aboard these vessels as these were military cuirassier, hussar and infantry units known as 'Life Guards' (so the classification is vague). The only one I could find with red uniform was indeed a hussar unit post Napoleonic . The reference "Russian Military Swords 1801-1917" Eugene Mollo, 1969, gives good images of the 'Guard' swords for cuirassiers (pallashes) and the light cavalry sabres for hussars....however it would be futile to estimate which type we are looking for without more detail. Since the French took over Tahiti and most of these islands in the 1830s and the fact that there does not seem to have been any meaningful diplomatic contacts with Russian vessels, it seems unlikely any type of Russian weapon presence carried forward in these regions, at least in notable consequence.