Pleeze help with ID...French 1817 Artillerie a Pied?

[celtan]

We are probably all familiar with the french M1816 Briquet, and with the M1831, later copied by the US.

The following seems to be a French M1831 blade set in a romanesque hilt, but it sports two ricasso 's inscriptions, one from the Manufacture Royale de Klingenthal, and the other stating its manufacture in Octobre de 1817.

Firts one I have ever seen. Its old museum tag IDed same as a French Artillerie a pied.

Any comments?

Best


Manuel Luis

[fernando]

Hi Manolo,
You mean Glaive, not Briquet.
This blade seems to be from a (foot) artillery 1816, right ?
The scabbard and grip are a wonder, though.
Saludos.
Nando

[celtan]

Hola Nandi,

No, mine is the glaive.

The M1816 briquette aka "cabbage cutter" is the one with a D guard, brass hilt and steel blade. ie. The one often used by champagne connoisseurs to dramatically open bottles...(decoupage). There were two versions, short for artillery, and long for infantry. They were copied by everyone, Spanish, Russians, Germans etc... and were used up to the late 19th C.

Which made me think: since the M1816 was already around in 1817, how come that this (glaive) blade, so M1831 like, was (reportedly) used by foot artillery ?

If it ever was, mind you. Which is exactly where I'm going. Perhaps the museum label was wrong.

I just don't see both blade types coexisting, and for similar purposes..

Perhaps Jean Binck can enlighten us?

Best

M

BTW: The scabbard's rope is also very interesting, seems it has thin copper wires interwoven with the organic kind.

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Manolo,
You mean Glaive, not Briquet.
This blade seems to be from a (foot) artillery 1816, right ?
The scabbard and grip are a wonder, though.
Saludos.
Nando

[fernando]

Some confusion here, Manolo .
It was you who said briquet in the first place.
I said glaive, and here the picture of a 1816 artillery one, which you can find here:
http://www.lehussard.fr/frameGeneral...Cat=SYS_ANCIEN

Fernando.

PS
I know briquets ... i have just sold one .

.

[celtan]

I guess so.

I was talking about the M1816 Briquet coexisting with my 1817 epee.

Did the gladius and the briquet coexist in 1817's France? Were they issued to different military units?

Why is my gladius hilt so different than the regular M1816?

Best

M

BTW: I also know briskets, half-roasted and with some wine they are simply delicious...

Originally Posted by fernando

Some confusion here, Manolo .
It was you who said briquet in the first place.
I said glaive, and here the picture of a 1816 artillery one, which you can find here:
http://www.lehussard.fr/frameGeneral...Cat=SYS_ANCIEN

Fernando.

PS
I know briquets ... i have just sold one .

.

[celtan]

Got some extra info. The M1816 Briquet coexisted with the M1816 Glaive. The French M1816 glaive is the inspiration for the American M1832, not the french M1831, whose blade and hilt are slightly different.

Not only that, but the 2/1 fullered glaive's blade may even be an older design, perhaps dating from the last quarter of the 18th C.

Any extra info is welcomed!

Best

M