Yemeni/Omani Jambiya differences

[celtan]

I have been studying this subject mostly thanks to current posts made by Battara and Kahnjar. But, I must also thank past contributors such a Michael Blalock, Lew and Steve. Whenever I search Jambias, most of the good hits take me back to our very own forum!


From what I have read, my jambiya is probably made of german silver. The pommel type is known as Meccan, representing the Black Stone, the blade is "watered"(whatever that means), and it may have been made in Yemen's Hadramout Wadi ,or in Saudi Asir. The Omani provenance is unlikely due to the absence of their characteristic scabbard's ring belt holder. The scabbard chape is small, unlike the thum characteristic of Jeda/Mecca.

I tried to clean the scabbard's greenish blue deposits with a toothbrush an detergent, to no avail. I'm worried that anything else may affect the leather. Suggestions?

BTW, what is the proper spelling: Jambiya, Jambiah, Jambiyah, Jambia? Kukri/Kuhkri/Kuhkuri, and Kahnjar, Kanjar/ Khanjar ..?

Best

Manuel

[Dom]

Originally Posted by celtan

what is the proper spelling: Jambiya, Jambiah, Jambiyah, Jambia? Kukri/Kuhkri/Kuhkuri, and Kahnjar, Kanjar/ Khanjar ..?

no fixed spelling as far as those words are writing with an other alphabet

just a convention according with countries, for instance
in France we 'll not used the same spelling than in UK i.e.
- Jeddah (city) for English
- Djeddah (city) for French

now to clarify for you
- Jambiya
- Khanjar ... "kh" equal a son of "krrr"

on the pic, you have
- a Jambiya from Hadramout Yemen
- a khanjar from Oman

à +

Dom

[celtan]

Thank you very much, Dom. Yet, now I'm more confused!

Pardon my blatant ignorance.

My scabbard is 135 degs. bent. It doesn't then follow either Omani, Saudi, Emirati or Yemeni customs!

You have four blades on your picture, two lying and two standing. The one standing on the left has a 90 deg angle on the scabbard, it is then a ...Saudi, Emirati, or Omani? The one standing on the right has a 180 deg angle with a very high thum, making it Yemenite? I understand this high thum is characteristic of the gusbi jambiyas from Yemen's Hadramout Wadi?

The horizontal one on the left is, a persian Kahnjar? The right, an ottoman kard perhaps?


So, all in all, what do you make of mine. Yemeni?

Best regards.

Manuel

[Dom]

Originally Posted by celtan

You have four blades on your picture, two lying and two standing. The one standing on the left has a 90 deg angle on the scabbard, it is then a ...Saudi, Emirati, or Omani?

Omani bought in Sharjah UAE some 30 years ago ...

Originally Posted by celtan

The one standing on the right has a 180 deg angle with a very high thum, making it Yemenite? I understand this high thum is characteristic of the gusbi jambiyas from Yemen's Hadramout Wadi?

yes, you 'r correct

Originally Posted by celtan

The horizontal one on the left is, a persian Kahnjar? The right, an ottoman kard perhaps?

the first one, not exactly,
- Syrian/Iraqi (Kurdish) dagger (Baghdadi) with johar blade http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8051
- Ottoman kard with johar blade http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=kard

Originally Posted by celtan

So, all in all, what do you make of mine. Yemeni?

yes, a "Zabidi" dagger from Hadramout, very nice

à +

Dom

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by celtan

I have been studying this subject mostly thanks to current posts made by Battara and Kahnjar. But, I must also thank past contributors such a Michael Blalock, Lew and Steve. Whenever I search Jambias, most of the good hits take me back to our very own forum!


From what I have read, my jambiya is probably made of german silver. The pommel type is known as Meccan, representing the Black Stone, the blade is "watered"(whatever that means), and it may have been made in Yemen's Hadramout Wadi ,or in Saudi Asir. The Omani provenance is unlikely due to the absence of their characteristic scabbard's ring belt holder. The scabbard chape is small, unlike the thum characteristic of Jeda/Mecca.

I tried to clean the scabbard's greenish blue deposits with a toothbrush an detergent, to no avail. I'm worried that anything else may affect the leather. Suggestions?

BTW, what is the proper spelling: Jambiya, Jambiah, Jambiyah, Jambia? Kukri/Kuhkri/Kuhkuri, and Kahnjar, Kanjar/ Khanjar ..?

Best

Manuel

Your Jambiya is not a Meccan style hilt, but is variously described as from Jizan or Hadhramaut areas. The catalogue from the King Faisal Exhibition describes this type as ZABIDI and from the Hadramaut (which is the Southern /Southeastern area of Yemen which borders to Oman). A pic of 2 Meccan style Jambiya is herewith. You will note that the tips of the hilt are NOT pointed.
Don't get too wrapped up in the various spellings as they all mean the same thing and probably "Jambiya" is much like the term "Wahabite" used by collectors to describe certain styles. The term "Khanjar" is used in Oman to describe their daggers, rather than "Jambiya".
Hopefully STEVE will come in on this post, as he has huge knowledge of (particulaly) Yemeni daggers.
Regards Stu

[celtan]

Hi Kahnjar,

Thanks for the extra info. I thought that the pommel's promontories depicted the Kaaba Mosque, and that made the style Meccan. Although the other example I saw had a different scabbard's tip.

Do you know anything about the Yemeni Hodeida style jambia from the Tihama plains..?

Best regards


BTW, any idea where I can get a correct chape for the broken scabbard 's tip on my persian kahnjar?

M

[kahnjar1]

Hi Manuel, Not quite sure what you define as "Tihama" but the attached is reputed to be from that area, and described by Elgood as such, though the script on the hilt suggests that it was made in Jeddah in 1958.
My direct email is sabiki@clear.net.nz so you might like to send me a pic of the item you are missing the piece of.
Stu

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Manuel, Not quite sure what you define as "Tihama" but the attached is reputed to be from that area, and described by Elgood as such, though the script on the hilt suggests that it was made in Jeddah in 1958.
My direct email is sabiki@clear.net.nz so you might like to send me a pic of the item you are missing the piece of.
Stu

Thats a Thuma. Easy to recognise as the scabbard follows the blade shape rather than being turned J shaped or almost U shaped. I wonder if thats the word being discussed as I never heard of Tihama but its a bit out of my area so who knows?? I was told that the Thuma is worn on the side rather than at the front whereas the others are worn at front.
I found an excellent note at www.lindahendrickson.com on Yemeni belt weavings ....and a bit about Yemeni daggers.. she writes;

Men in Yemen do not commonly wear jewelry, except for silver rings. The one exception is the decorative dagger called a jambia, which is a common item of dress for most highland Yemeni men. The jambia has great symbolic value establishing one's place in social hierarchies and tribal membership, though it is rarely used as a weapon. The j-shaped version of this dagger, asib, is worn by tribesmen, while judges, legal scholars and religious elites wear a more gently-curved version called a thuma or tuza (similar to the one in this picture). This version worn by elites often displays very intricate and exquisite silver craftsmanship on the sheath.

[Conduit]

Hello gentlemen,

I am new to this forum so my apologies if placed my first post in the wrong thread as did not want to start a new discussion.
Would you be able to help me to date correctly these two jambiyas (I believe they are of Yemeni origin)?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

What happened in Yemen with silversmithing was a notable crash in the quality of silver decoration and expertise caused by the exodus in about 1948 of Jewish craftsmen to Israel. Since then it has continued and is almost complete. No craftsmen were left to hand over the expertise so that only a few weeks or months were used to do what little they could to get some sort of continuation of the specialty. There is no comparison to highly specialized Jewish Yemeni work to the quality on Yemeni work... not surprising. I'm afraid that's it so far as Jewish Yemeni work is concerned.. The weapons shown on thread are post 1948 but its not a matter of just time but who did the work and what was lost in the repatriation process. Most of the Omani styled daggers shown here aren't Omani and I see Bahraini, Emirati and other variants some from Saudia in the mixture but for a reasonable selection see The Omani Khanjar at library.... or hit the link below.... to compare but realise that what you are comparing is not a fair issue because of what is outlined above.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=omani+khanjar

By the way #23 ABOVE has the almost exact X IN LEATHER DECORATION ON THE SCABBARD AS DOES #9 AT http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...835#post241835



Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by celtan

BTW, what is the proper spelling: Jambiya, Jambiah, Jambiyah, Jambia? Kukri/Kuhkri/Kuhkuri, and Kahnjar, Kanjar/ Khanjar ..?

Best

Manuel

Hello all,

just want to add that the correct spelling for these type of daggers is Janbiya or Jannabiyah depending on region. Khanjar is also used though you'd probably understand the "kh" if you hear an arab say it.

i think the reason why collectors call Janbiya's ; Jambiya is probably due to tourists not hearing the pronunciation correctly. the origin of the word is jnb which means; side. there is no word jmb in arabic that i know of.

beautiful collection of pictures folks, i really like the gusbi that Dom has

A.Alnakkas

[Dom]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

i really like the gusbi that Dom has

choukrane, fod'dol
à +

Dom

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Dom

choukrane, fod'dol
à +

Dom

Ahlan wa sahlan

[Oriental-Arms]

I am not trying to answer these questions. All the postings above are doing good work. I just want to add that we will have the privilege to host Steve Gracie from Sydney in our next meeting in Timonim March 19. He will give us a presentation which hopefully will shed a new light on the names, origin and distribution of these fascinating daggers. Your are all more than welcome to join. We will announce the full program very soon.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Oriental-Arms

I am not trying to answer these questions. All the postings above are doing good work. I just want to add that we will have the privilege to host Steve Gracie from Sydney in our next meeting in Timonim March 19. He will give us a presentation which hopefully will shed a new light on the names, origin and distribution of these fascinating daggers. Your are all more than welcome to join. We will announce the full program very soon.

If you can make Timonim and are at all interested in Yemeni daggers, make sure that you get to the presentation!! I have had the privilege of meeting Steve and seeing his collection. What an eyeopener, and what a fountain of knowledge!!
Stu

[Michael Blalock]

The word transliterates from the arabic جنبية as janbiya but is pronounced as jambiya. The root JNB means by or side or beside. Watch the attached video and you will hear the pronunciation with an M. I have heard it is just something idiosyncratic in the Yemeni dialect. When they pronounce the plural it is with an N, janaby. I have heard it pronounced with an M since I was a child.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DK2DmlsXE

Just to make sure I was not remembering this wrong I double checked with former ambassador David Newton who was stationed in Yemen on and off since 1966.

"Hello Michael. You are correct. The word is written with an "n," but it is pronounced with an "m," simply because of ease of speaking. The two letters "b" and "m" are spoken in the front of the mouth. whereas "n" is pronounced in the back of the mouth. So "m" is much easier to use next to a 'b." I'll look at your pictures. Regards. David"