Help with (Moro Kris?)

Yanni · 26th November 2010, 09:03 PM

Dear Forum members,
This is my first post, so please forgive any transgressions.
I recently became aware of your forum during my search to identify what now I believe to be a Moro Kris sword.
You gentlemen seem to be very knowledgeable on these swords, and I would like to post a few pictures for identification.

The sword in question shows remarkable workmanship, has extensive engraving with silver inlay.
Unfortunately it had suffered a some damage before I got it, where it has lost about 40% of the silver inlay, the top of the grip is gone and only the wood remains of the sheath.

Any information on this sword will be greatly appreciated, along with any suggestions and pointers towards authentic restoration.

Thank you,
Yanni

Rick · 26th November 2010, 11:10 PM

Don't; looks fine just as it is !
Mindanao, Maranao ??
Can you provide better , sharper pictures ?

Right now I'm thinking this is a well made 20th Century piece from the okir work .

We really need to see the details in a sharp picture of the base of the blade ?

Spunjer · 7th April 2011, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Don't; looks fine just as it is !
Mindanao, Maranao ??
Can you provide better , sharper pictures ?

Right now I'm thinking this is a well made 20th Century piece from the okir work .

We really need to see the details in a sharp picture of the base of the blade ?

yo rick,
do you have a centerfold picture of this kris you posted, the one with okir work on the whole blade? is the gangya separated on yours?

Rick · 7th April 2011, 03:51 PM

Hi Ron,

I shot a couple of new ones .
No seperate ganja .

David · 7th April 2011, 04:05 PM

Is Yanni still with us? I am wondering now what ever happened to this beauty and still hoping that he didn't change the hilt wrap...

Spunjer · 7th April 2011, 05:15 PM

Thanks, Rick! I'm trying to compare it to a similar kris that I have, and like yours, there's no separation line on the gangya as well. I'm actually interested at the ukkil design on the blade, wondering if it's similar. I will take some photo of mine and will post it.

Gavin Nugent · 26th November 2010, 11:16 PM

Hello and Welcome Yanni.

Indeed that is a Moro Kris you have there, a nice looking piece too.
The Kris is certainly able to be rescued but by rescued, do not consider this to be in poor condition, it is not, it is in very good order and you will find many tips within these pages and many more members will be sure to offer their help.

I'm always happy to offer suggestions, and am only an email away ;-)
Gavin@swordsantiqueweapons.com

Gav

Battara · 27th November 2010, 12:26 AM

Greetings and welcome to our little forum!

What you have is a Maguindanao tribe kris. The hilt wrapping is later and not original to this. That indeed is silver inlay and I believe the blade to be a datu chieftain blade.

As far as restoration is concerned the silver inlay can be replaced. The hilt would be more difficult and I would have to have it in hand. That being said, I would think that the original hilt would have had at the minimum some okir design silver on it.

If you want to talk about restoration services, just email me at battara@hotmail.com

kai · 27th November 2010, 01:58 AM

Welcome to the forum, Yanni!

What's the blade length? And, yes, sharp pics would be good: try taking them from a larger distance (macro mode if available) and crop/resize/sharpen the pics afterwards if needed.

The missing pommel (possibly of the kakatua style) can be replaced. You could get a newly carved one from Mindanao or ask Jose to lend a helping hand...

While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose?

Regards,
Kai

Yanni · 27th November 2010, 02:40 AM

Thank you much for your reply...
I am posting some better pictures. They are a bit clearer than the first.
Unfortunately, this is the best I can do with my equipment and ability.

Dimentions:
Blade length from the cane wrapped handle to the tip is 24-1/4"
The blade width at he widest part of the guard is 5-1/8"
The cane wrapped handle is 3-1/2"

Again, thank you,

Yanni

Battara · 28th November 2010, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose?

Well, I know that some in the past have said this, but in later years I have some to the opinion that this is actually Maguindanao. There seems to be a subtle difference between what we know as Maguindanao and Maranao ganga "faces". I have without question always seen this type of face on Maguindanao shoulderless scabbards, but not the Maranao. This is why Kai I have started saying that this ganga "face" is Maguindano. Otherwise, I would agree with you. They are indeed very similar.

As far as okir is concerned, I have noticed that both groups use the same okir style and forms. If it weren't for the other subtleties, I would not be able to tell the difference at all.

BTW - normally I would have given my email privately, but Yanni your private message section is not working for me.

tunggulametung · 28th November 2010, 02:26 PM

Yanni, this is a very nice kris, there's something beyond words on this piece, I like it a lot. May I ask a question, is it stained? or the dark color comes from oiled surface rust? Why I ask is because it is likely the 'original' stain from the owner, and I'm still looking on how a Moro kris is ideally stained/look. As for restoration, I personally suggest rattan binding for the sheath and nothing further, it might be originally metal binding but rattan is easier to do with more guaranteed result/more natural look for the sheath at this condition. The pommel can be replaced but will change the overall look so must be taken with care before deciding (I also have a kris which loosing a pommel). My suggestion on this probably you don't want to fix it for sometime say 1-3 months after the pommel being carved and see if they really goes along well.

@ Battara: please enlighten me on how you identify the hilt wrapping as later and not original to this please? I might want to re-wrap a kris hilt in the near future and thought that I like how it is done on this piece but your comment disturb me somehow. Probably not traditional design?

Thanks

26th November 2010, 09:03 PM	#1
Yanni Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4	Help with (Moro Kris?) Dear Forum members, This is my first post, so please forgive any transgressions. I recently became aware of your forum during my search to identify what now I believe to be a Moro Kris sword. You gentlemen seem to be very knowledgeable on these swords, and I would like to post a few pictures for identification. The sword in question shows remarkable workmanship, has extensive engraving with silver inlay. Unfortunately it had suffered a some damage before I got it, where it has lost about 40% of the silver inlay, the top of the grip is gone and only the wood remains of the sheath. Any information on this sword will be greatly appreciated, along with any suggestions and pointers towards authentic restoration. Thank you, Yanni Attached Images

26th November 2010, 11:10 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Restoration ? Don't; looks fine just as it is ! Mindanao, Maranao ?? Can you provide better , sharper pictures ? Right now I'm thinking this is a well made 20th Century piece from the okir work . We really need to see the details in a sharp picture of the base of the blade ? Attached Images

7th April 2011, 03:51 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,263	Hi Ron, I shot a couple of new ones . No seperate ganja . Attached Images

26th November 2010, 11:16 PM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Hello and Welcome Hello and Welcome Yanni. Indeed that is a Moro Kris you have there, a nice looking piece too. The Kris is certainly able to be rescued but by rescued, do not consider this to be in poor condition, it is not, it is in very good order and you will find many tips within these pages and many more members will be sure to offer their help. I'm always happy to offer suggestions, and am only an email away ;-) Gavin@swordsantiqueweapons.com Gav Last edited by freebooter; 27th November 2010 at 01:53 AM. Reason: Email contact added

27th November 2010, 02:40 AM	#10
Yanni Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4	Thank you much for your reply... I am posting some better pictures. They are a bit clearer than the first. Unfortunately, this is the best I can do with my equipment and ability. Dimentions: Blade length from the cane wrapped handle to the tip is 24-1/4" The blade width at he widest part of the guard is 5-1/8" The cane wrapped handle is 3-1/2" Again, thank you, Yanni Attached Images

7th April 2011, 04:05 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,035	Is Yanni still with us? I am wondering now what ever happened to this beauty and still hoping that he didn't change the hilt wrap...

7th April 2011, 05:15 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Thanks, Rick! I'm trying to compare it to a similar kris that I have, and like yours, there's no separation line on the gangya as well. I'm actually interested at the ukkil design on the blade, wondering if it's similar. I will take some photo of mine and will post it.

27th November 2010, 12:26 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Greetings and welcome to our little forum! What you have is a Maguindanao tribe kris. The hilt wrapping is later and not original to this. That indeed is silver inlay and I believe the blade to be a datu chieftain blade. As far as restoration is concerned the silver inlay can be replaced. The hilt would be more difficult and I would have to have it in hand. That being said, I would think that the original hilt would have had at the minimum some okir design silver on it. If you want to talk about restoration services, just email me at battara@hotmail.com

27th November 2010, 01:58 AM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,221	Welcome to the forum, Yanni! What's the blade length? And, yes, sharp pics would be good: try taking them from a larger distance (macro mode if available) and crop/resize/sharpen the pics afterwards if needed. The missing pommel (possibly of the kakatua style) can be replaced. You could get a newly carved one from Mindanao or ask Jose to lend a helping hand... While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose? Regards, Kai

28th November 2010, 02:26 PM	#12
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Yanni, this is a very nice kris, there's something beyond words on this piece, I like it a lot. May I ask a question, is it stained? or the dark color comes from oiled surface rust? Why I ask is because it is likely the 'original' stain from the owner, and I'm still looking on how a Moro kris is ideally stained/look. As for restoration, I personally suggest rattan binding for the sheath and nothing further, it might be originally metal binding but rattan is easier to do with more guaranteed result/more natural look for the sheath at this condition. The pommel can be replaced but will change the overall look so must be taken with care before deciding (I also have a kris which loosing a pommel). My suggestion on this probably you don't want to fix it for sometime say 1-3 months after the pommel being carved and see if they really goes along well. @ Battara: please enlighten me on how you identify the hilt wrapping as later and not original to this please? I might want to re-wrap a kris hilt in the near future and thought that I like how it is done on this piece but your comment disturb me somehow. Probably not traditional design? Thanks