18th century Gunners Stilleto?

[templarnight]

Hi
I have this Dagger.
Long square sectioned Blade with an interesting serrated area just below the tip.
The Wood Handle is beauitufully worn and patinated with engraved Panel.
Is this a Gunners Stiletto for cleaningthe touch hole?
Any ideas as to exact age or where it came from?
Many thanks in anticipation

[fernando]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
What an excelent stilleto.It should have quite some age, judging by its pommel ... and not only.
Could it be that the monogram and number belonged to a military, although the plate wasn't not necessarily applied at the dagger's origin? like a second owner ?
But i might just be talking nonsense. Let's see what the experts tell about it.
I wouln't be surprised to learn that the serrated part works like a touchole cleaning "screw".

[Jim McDougall]

Templar, thank you so much for posting this most unusual piece!
This indeed does appear to be a 'gunners stiletto' which is of a type of weapon better known as the 'fusetti' or bombardiers dagger from early types in use in the Venetian Republic mid 17th into early 18th c.

These earlier forms characteristically were marked with guaged numbers and marks in which often a degree of variation and style led to speculation that these were used to disguise them as gunners daggers. The reason for this was that such weapons as stilettos were proscribed to the general public and only permitted to bonafied artillerymen. While it is unclear how these were used, the most accepted possibilities are for measuring bore as well as measuring the intended projectile. In addition these thin bladed weapons were for puncturing the canvas or cloth measured bag of powder when rammed into barrel through the touchhole.
As well noted, these of course also served to clear the touchhole as it became fouled.........in the final case, these also served as a spike to disable cannon if they were to be abandoned, and as always as a weapon in case of position being overrun.

While the use of the fusetti is suggested to have fallen out of use by the earlier part of the 18th century according to Terenzi ("The Gunners Stiletto" Marcello Terenzi, 'Arms and Armor Annual' 1973 ed. R. Held. pp.170-79), it would seem that similar weapons would remain practical in other countries and accompanying the continued use of smoothbore ordnance.
These stilettos are also discussed by Sir James Mann in "Antiquaries Journal" Vo. XI, #1 , London, 1931.

This particular example by its neoclassic style, the grip shape and crosshatched design as well as the engraved cartouche with the letters and numbers in script seem to suggest 18th century France, perhaps even of Napoleonic period. Naturally it would take more to confirm that, but those are the indicators. As Napoleon himself was a 'gunner' it seems likely that officers in his ranks would have had conspicuous pride even beyond that normally held by artillerymen in course. In these times officers typically had custom made weapons, and in many cases they were gifts from proud family members or fellow officers or troops.

I am yet unclear on exactly how these serrations may have served in the presumed function of this piece, however thier deliberate presence as well as the thin blade itself profoundly identify this as a gunners dagger.

Best regards,
Jim

[Matchlock]

Hi Jim and Templar,

While basically consistent with the opinions given identifying this as a gunner's dagger, I agree with Jim in that the absence of gauging is very unusal, as well as the presence of the serrations. I doubt whether these were intended to 'clean' the touch hole as they would have continously widened the hole.

As to dating, I should attribute it to the mid-19th c., based on the clear 17th c. style of the Historismus period pommel.

Best,
Michael

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Michael, and Im really glad you came in on this, I hoped you would.
An interesting assessment for Historismus period, and honestly I had never heard of it.....and now that I have read on it, I realize why You have an amazing grasp of art nuances that are remarkably esoteric and completely fascinating. From what I can understand the term seems to have appeared around 1797 by Friedrich Schelegel suggesting of course returning to classical period (Iggers, 1995) and while largely philosophical in nature also refers to the art movement end of 19th century c.1870-1910 and as you note, reflecting 16th-17th c. styles.
Interestingly, the vagueries concerning this Historismus period seem to coincide with the very subjective nature of the topics and fields it concerns.
In one reference it is suggested that the 'movement' as it is termed may be considered to have begun as early as 1750 inspired by French neo baroque styles.

As I have noted, the French appearance to me is suggested by the crosshatched design in the grips, typically seen in the ebony grips of French officers sabres on Napoleonic period. The pommel is indeed neo classical, and seems to correspond with period in France where many neo classic styles and traditions were in place. The interesting cartouche with majescule letter above another with numbers in what appears 18th c. French script.

Perhaps this may be an 'interpretation' of the type stilettos used by gunners,
as by the time of this piece it seems unlikely such instrument/weapons would have been used. Actually, the bombardier stilletto phenomenon was largely to Italy, though as with fashion and these kinds of allusions may well have passed in degree to other European countries in a military parlance. It seems that for the most part, the priming iron (a sharp pointed stylus type item) was used by artillerymen to clear touch holes. The prime focus of the gunners stilletto was in its doubling as a weapon, and its disguise with arcane numbers in guage arrangement to meet stipulation that only gunners could have such weapons.

Then there is the matter of the curious crenellations in the blade. Still it is either gunners stilletto issued anachronistically or an honorific interpretation of one, either French in the period I suggest, or later as Michael suggests. It is difficult to say exactly as it is a weapon type issued out of time and may have been fashioned within this broader period of the 19th century.

[Rick]

Perhaps this was meant only to puncture the cloth cartridge in a gun .
The serrated part (if sharp) would penetrate the bag, make a ragged hole and pull powder up toward the touch hole .

The thing looks pretty well used to me .
Cannon are often numbered on naval vessels .