Stick Sword for Comment

Queequeg · 24th May 2011, 07:10 PM

Any comments on the provenance and age of this would be appreciated. I'm going to guess European, 1880-1910, only because I can't think of a time when this may have been more common.

Overall length is 26"

Blade is 18"

Two views of the cruciform blade. The point is very sharp:

Close up of the head. I'm unsure what kind of wood it is, but my fingernail doesn't leave a mark in it:

The leather cord and Turk's head knots appear to be later additions:

Another view of the blade. It has a nice patina:

I'm certain the wood of the shaft is mahogany, having worked with it many times before:

Thank you in advance.

katana · 24th May 2011, 07:28 PM

Hi Queequeg,
I would hazard a guess and say that this is either African or African colonial. Sword sticks are still available in Africa today for self protection whilst in the bush. Finding the 'source' of the blade would be a great help ....any markings ?

Regards David

Queequeg · 24th May 2011, 07:30 PM

David,

No markings, unfortunately.

Gavin Nugent · 24th May 2011, 09:20 PM

All a very modern put together in my opinion.
It would be more a swagger stick at the length.

fearn · 25th May 2011, 06:14 PM

That blade looks like a modified fencing epee, which would make it western and probably modern-ish. Not sure where the head came from.

Best,

F

Queequeg · 27th May 2011, 12:56 AM

Anyone up for estimating the age of this?

fearn · 27th May 2011, 01:29 AM

I think it's 30-50 years old, if that helps.

F

Gavin Nugent · 27th May 2011, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I think it's 30-50 years old, if that helps.

F

I would have said 1980-now

Gav

fearn · 27th May 2011, 06:37 AM

Okay, Gav, 20-50 years. I can go with that. I think it's had time for the leather to get worn and the wood to get a bit of a patina, at least.

F

Gavin Nugent · 27th May 2011, 09:24 AM

The blade appears to be a French M1886 Epee Bayonet, cruciform blade with a slightly re-profiled tip. I have seen these in various canes of various ages from various regions.
Catherine Dike in Cane Curiosa show a couple of examples, one with the edges filed in decoration, figure 29/58 and and another in figure 29/67. Both appear to be the size and taper of these bayonets.

Gav

drdavid · 27th May 2011, 10:32 AM

I dont think the tip is right for an epee, I suspect Gav is on the right track
drd

katana · 27th May 2011, 03:31 PM

I too think Gav is on the right track, a French bayonet that continued to be used in WW1 and later would certainly have been used in North Africa. Many European bayonets ended up reprofiled and mounted locally.

No great age to the fittings but the blade is likely much older and remounted....as I said before these are still carried in some parts of Africa. This could have been carried as a short sword, thrust through a belt.

Regards David

fearn · 27th May 2011, 03:34 PM

I'm going to have to disagree, speaking as the former kid who actually ground down a broken epee blade. To me, it's chevron-shaped in cross section, but I agree that the pictures are less than informative

In any case, Queequeg will have to answer what the cross-section is, especially near the base.

Here's a modern epee (image source) for comparison. Unfortunately it doesn't show the critical part where this blade was sharpened down.

Best,

F

Gavin Nugent · 27th May 2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I'm going to have to disagree, speaking as the former kid who actually ground down a broken epee blade. To me, it's shaped, but I agree that the pictures are less than informative

In any case, Queequeg will have to answer what the cross-section is, especially near the base.

Here's a modern epee (image source) for comparison. Unfortunately it doesn't show the critical part where this blade was sharpened down.

Best,

F

I could well have misread the images as cruciform where it might be triform.

Gav

24th May 2011, 07:10 PM	#1
Queequeg Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Detroit (New Mayapan) Posts: 96	Stick Sword for Comment Any comments on the provenance and age of this would be appreciated. I'm going to guess European, 1880-1910, only because I can't think of a time when this may have been more common. Overall length is 26" Blade is 18" Two views of the cruciform blade. The point is very sharp: Close up of the head. I'm unsure what kind of wood it is, but my fingernail doesn't leave a mark in it: The leather cord and Turk's head knots appear to be later additions: Another view of the blade. It has a nice patina: I'm certain the wood of the shaft is mahogany, having worked with it many times before: Thank you in advance.

27th May 2011, 09:24 AM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The blade The blade appears to be a French M1886 Epee Bayonet, cruciform blade with a slightly re-profiled tip. I have seen these in various canes of various ages from various regions. Catherine Dike in Cane Curiosa show a couple of examples, one with the edges filed in decoration, figure 29/58 and and another in figure 29/67. Both appear to be the size and taper of these bayonets. Gav

27th May 2011, 03:34 PM	#13
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	add "chevron-shaped" I'm going to have to disagree, speaking as the former kid who actually ground down a broken epee blade. To me, it's chevron-shaped in cross section, but I agree that the pictures are less than informative In any case, Queequeg will have to answer what the cross-section is, especially near the base. Here's a modern epee (image source) for comparison. Unfortunately it doesn't show the critical part where this blade was sharpened down. Best, F Attached Images Last edited by fearn; 27th May 2011 at 06:33 PM.

24th May 2011, 07:28 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Queequeg, I would hazard a guess and say that this is either African or African colonial. Sword sticks are still available in Africa today for self protection whilst in the bush. Finding the 'source' of the blade would be a great help ....any markings ? Regards David

24th May 2011, 07:30 PM	#3
Queequeg Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Detroit (New Mayapan) Posts: 96	David, No markings, unfortunately.

24th May 2011, 09:20 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	All a very modern put together in my opinion. It would be more a swagger stick at the length.

25th May 2011, 06:14 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	That blade looks like a modified fencing epee, which would make it western and probably modern-ish. Not sure where the head came from. Best, F

27th May 2011, 12:56 AM	#6
Queequeg Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Detroit (New Mayapan) Posts: 96	Anyone up for estimating the age of this?

27th May 2011, 01:29 AM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I think it's 30-50 years old, if that helps. F

27th May 2011, 06:37 AM	#9
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Okay, Gav, 20-50 years. I can go with that. I think it's had time for the leather to get worn and the wood to get a bit of a patina, at least. F

27th May 2011, 10:32 AM	#11
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 369	I dont think the tip is right for an epee, I suspect Gav is on the right track drd

27th May 2011, 03:31 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I too think Gav is on the right track, a French bayonet that continued to be used in WW1 and later would certainly have been used in North Africa. Many European bayonets ended up reprofiled and mounted locally. No great age to the fittings but the blade is likely much older and remounted....as I said before these are still carried in some parts of Africa. This could have been carried as a short sword, thrust through a belt. Regards David