Sword hilt for ID

fernando · 7th August 2012, 06:44 PM

The owner told my friend this is an Islamic hilt, but something tells me this is European. I even think a similar one was already posted here.
The guy only left a picture of the hilt and a description of the blade: slightly curved, thin, single edged, length 70-80 cms ( 28 to 31").
Any ideas ... please ?

.

Atlantia · 7th August 2012, 07:02 PM

Tut, tut Nando!

Pictures of the whole item please!

fernando · 7th August 2012, 07:46 PM

As i said Gene, no more pictures

.That's why i tried to compensate with the blade description

.
I know this is a chalenge; hoping the hilt is self speaking .

Atlantia · 7th August 2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

As i said Gene, no more pictures

.That's why i tried to compensate with the blade description

.
I know this is a chalenge; hoping the hilt is self speaking .

Ah, well we have an old saying, "What's good for the Goose"

So I'll be posting a blade stamp I want to identify now

As for your sword.
The hilt looks later 18thC to me. But pictures of the blade might change that opinion.
My initial thoughts are that the animal headed full bronze hilt with 'S' guard puts me in mind of the private bandmans swords from that era. But there is something almost 'hunting hanger' about it.

The Bird has a very 'exotic' look to it. My feeling is European but colonial.

Jim McDougall · 7th August 2012, 10:36 PM

I think Gene has a good observation here, this does appear of European form and quite possibly Spanish colonial /Mexican. The striations in the guard are mindful of the scallop shell, often seen in Spanish themes. I cannot see anything here that suggests Islamic.

M ELEY · 7th August 2012, 10:53 PM

Hello gents-
Just wanted to concur with Jean and Jim, adding that although the form is odd, it could also be colonial American-
Swords with this exact pommel type, including raised feather patterns, can be seen in the Lattimer collection ('Silver-Mounted Swords' by Danial Hartzler), plates 294, 298, 325, 326, 328, 332, 334, 343.
Plate 327, the closest to our eagle with the exact beak pattern (almost ibis-like), eye and feather pattern on a sword by William Ball of Baltimore (1763-1815). His other swords, listed in plates above, all extremely similar. The reason Jim might have hit it on the head is that many/most of Ball's swords bear Spanish blades with the motto- "No Me Saques Sin Razon", etc, etc. Thus, we could have a colonial Spanish sword or one made in New Spain for the American market ca. 1790-1820's?? Nice sword...

fernando · 8th August 2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Ah, well we have an old saying, "What's good for the Goose"

...

Atlantia · 8th August 2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

LOL sorry, haven't you heard that one?
"What's good for the goose is good for the Gander"

I didn't realise it was OK to post incomplete pictures of items when asking for ID's until you posted this hilt.

Which is good because now I can post that blade stamp I wanted to identify.

On the subject of your hilt I think the bird has to be the big clue.
It's so distintive and exotic.

Again I'm reminded of the cast bronze stylised 'beast head' hilts of the west Indies bandsmens swords from the 19thC.

But for some reason this one makes me think VOC/Dutch east indies. Even though as has been said, it does have a Spanish/S.A feel to it

Edit:
Not the same, but possibly something approaching it is this Dutch east india co sword, dated by the dealer to cicra 1620 (?).

7th August 2012, 06:44 PM	#1
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,647	Sword hilt for ID The owner told my friend this is an Islamic hilt, but something tells me this is European. I even think a similar one was already posted here. The guy only left a picture of the hilt and a description of the blade: slightly curved, thin, single edged, length 70-80 cms ( 28 to 31"). Any ideas ... please ? . Attached Images

7th August 2012, 07:02 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Tut, tut Nando! Pictures of the whole item please!

7th August 2012, 07:46 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,647	As i said Gene, no more pictures .That's why i tried to compensate with the blade description . I know this is a chalenge; hoping the hilt is self speaking .

7th August 2012, 10:36 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,785	I think Gene has a good observation here, this does appear of European form and quite possibly Spanish colonial /Mexican. The striations in the guard are mindful of the scallop shell, often seen in Spanish themes. I cannot see anything here that suggests Islamic.

7th August 2012, 10:53 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,076	Hello gents- Just wanted to concur with Jean and Jim, adding that although the form is odd, it could also be colonial American- Swords with this exact pommel type, including raised feather patterns, can be seen in the Lattimer collection ('Silver-Mounted Swords' by Danial Hartzler), plates 294, 298, 325, 326, 328, 332, 334, 343. Plate 327, the closest to our eagle with the exact beak pattern (almost ibis-like), eye and feather pattern on a sword by William Ball of Baltimore (1763-1815). His other swords, listed in plates above, all extremely similar. The reason Jim might have hit it on the head is that many/most of Ball's swords bear Spanish blades with the motto- "No Me Saques Sin Razon", etc, etc. Thus, we could have a colonial Spanish sword or one made in New Spain for the American market ca. 1790-1820's?? Nice sword...