New Maguindanao Kris Form

ThePepperSkull · 4th November 2013, 10:05 PM

What can I say other than I am speechless? What a great find, and I'm so glad it went to someone who posts here, as I wouldn't have learned about the abbreviated/blunt sarimanok pommel being a consistently executed form.

I have one with a similar form pommel (albeit wood) as well, and once i find pictures I'll post them on the thread to contribute.

Again, great find, Jose. I wish I'd bid more on it when it was up, but I'm glad it went to you.

EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are?

Spunjer · 4th November 2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are?

you know, i've been comparing jose's kris and Piang's kris, and the only difference i could find is that final ring closest to the pommel. on piang's picture, i noticed that the rings are spaced evenly, with the final ring placed just below the reversed number 7 looking ukkil. also, it seems like there's a cloth of some sort between the top ring and the ring immediately below it. meanwhile, Jose's kris has the top ring seated next to second ring...
other than that, the ukkils are eerily similar. heck, everything else is similar. i mean, for those that collects moro krises, has anyone ever seen two krises that are THIS similar???

which begs another question: does the ring closest to the pommel somewhat loose, or by any chance, moveable???

Battara · 5th November 2013, 12:08 AM

Well the ring/band below the pommel is held there by twisted silver wire at the front. It is not actually a ring. I agree that there are some small differences in the 2, but again minor.

I too wonder if this could have been owned by Piang.......

Here are 2 other pictures of another metal pommel kris worn by Datu Piang - one is a close up of the other:

CharlesS · 5th November 2013, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

you know, i've been comparing jose's kris and Piang's kris, and the only difference i could find is that final ring closest to the pommel. on piang's picture, i noticed that the rings are spaced evenly, with the final ring placed just below the reversed number 7 looking ukkil. also, it seems like there's a cloth of some sort between the top ring and the ring immediately below it. meanwhile, Jose's kris has the top ring seated next to second ring...
other than that, the ukkils are eerily similar. heck, everything else is similar. i mean, for those that collects moro krises, has anyone ever seen two krises that are THIS similar???

which begs another question: does the ring closest to the pommel somewhat loose, or by any chance, moveable???

The biggest difference I see is that Jose's has one baca-baca and Piang's has two. Otherwise they are virtually identical.

CCUAL · 5th November 2013, 12:48 AM

Well, besides the rings difference there is also a difference on the upper ukil of both krises. The spine of the asang-asang's stirrup is very visible and it look like it was connected to the top ring of the handle. Maybe, after Piang's death, who ever inherited his sword, managed to dismantle the handle and removed the frit side clamp and stirrup?

preferred a single instead of two?

Robert · 5th November 2013, 01:30 AM

I do not know if this will help, but here is a side by side of the three hilt photos.

Robert

Battara · 5th November 2013, 03:04 AM

CCual thanks for finding a sharper and more complete picture than mine. Robert thank you for the comparison pictures.

Also notice that the kris in Datu Piang's hand has metal straps going up 2 opposite sides of the hilt where as mine doesn't have any.

Battara · 6th November 2013, 04:11 AM

Ok boys and girls. It looks some things have changed.

First the good news: upon further clean up I have discovered remnants of a second silver baca-baca clamp on the back of the blade.

Now the bad news: that means I'll now have to take the hilt off again and make a brand new silver baca-baca, attempting to match the other one.

Also the remains of a silver strap on the present baca-baca - not sure if it went up into the hilt or up the sides of the hilt like in the Datu Piang's picture.

It seems to be getting closer and closer to looking exactly like the one in the picture.

Robert · 6th November 2013, 04:57 AM

Hello Jose, Not trying to be the wet blanket here, but the only way that your example could be the one shown in the photo of Datu Piang would be if the orange swassa filigree section has been replaced. Both hilts are very simalar but not quite the same. This is just my personal opinion on these hilts and I am by NO means an expert on kris or for that matter anything else.

I will leave with a question though. Could this possibly be another of the Datu's kris but just one that is more ornate than the one in the photo?

Best,
Robert

4th November 2013, 10:05 PM	#1
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	What can I say other than I am speechless? What a great find, and I'm so glad it went to someone who posts here, as I wouldn't have learned about the abbreviated/blunt sarimanok pommel being a consistently executed form. I have one with a similar form pommel (albeit wood) as well, and once i find pictures I'll post them on the thread to contribute. Again, great find, Jose. I wish I'd bid more on it when it was up, but I'm glad it went to you. EDIT: What would the chances be that this actually is Datu Piang's Kris? I'm thinking that since he died prior to WWII, he could have passed it on to a relative who may have had to replace the scabbard at some point. Are there any other shots of Piang and his Kris we can use for reference to see just how similar the hilts are? Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 4th November 2013 at 10:50 PM.

5th November 2013, 12:08 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	Well the ring/band below the pommel is held there by twisted silver wire at the front. It is not actually a ring. I agree that there are some small differences in the 2, but again minor. I too wonder if this could have been owned by Piang....... Here are 2 other pictures of another metal pommel kris worn by Datu Piang - one is a close up of the other: Attached Images

5th November 2013, 01:30 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I do not know if this will help, but here is a side by side of the three hilt photos. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert; 5th November 2013 at 01:54 AM.

5th November 2013, 12:48 AM	#5
CCUAL Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 76	Well, besides the rings difference there is also a difference on the upper ukil of both krises. The spine of the asang-asang's stirrup is very visible and it look like it was connected to the top ring of the handle. Maybe, after Piang's death, who ever inherited his sword, managed to dismantle the handle and removed the frit side clamp and stirrup? preferred a single instead of two?

5th November 2013, 03:04 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	CCual thanks for finding a sharper and more complete picture than mine. Robert thank you for the comparison pictures. Also notice that the kris in Datu Piang's hand has metal straps going up 2 opposite sides of the hilt where as mine doesn't have any.

6th November 2013, 04:11 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,141	Ok boys and girls. It looks some things have changed. First the good news: upon further clean up I have discovered remnants of a second silver baca-baca clamp on the back of the blade. Now the bad news: that means I'll now have to take the hilt off again and make a brand new silver baca-baca, attempting to match the other one. Also the remains of a silver strap on the present baca-baca - not sure if it went up into the hilt or up the sides of the hilt like in the Datu Piang's picture. It seems to be getting closer and closer to looking exactly like the one in the picture.

6th November 2013, 04:57 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, Not trying to be the wet blanket here, but the only way that your example could be the one shown in the photo of Datu Piang would be if the orange swassa filigree section has been replaced. Both hilts are very simalar but not quite the same. This is just my personal opinion on these hilts and I am by NO means an expert on kris or for that matter anything else. I will leave with a question though. Could this possibly be another of the Datu's kris but just one that is more ornate than the one in the photo? Best, Robert