keris good and bad?

NotoriousCal · 27th September 2016, 03:35 AM

Hello group, I hope you are well. I have been contemplating keris over the past few days and I have a question. I have seen good look keris being sold for next to nothing.

Is the only way to know if you have a good keris is to buy it? Maybe because there are so many keris being sold is because some have approached the keris they bought in the wrong manner. It seems as though a keris should compliment the owner.

Your feed back is much appreciated.

David · 27th September 2016, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousCal

I have been contemplating keris over the past few days and I have a question. I have seen good look keris being sold for next to nothing.

If you will forgive me Cal, but based upon your line of questioning so far i get the impression that the keris is a relatively new subject of study for you. One think i can tell you for sure is that the keris is a lifelong study. I have been collecting and studying keris for decades now and still feel like i am only in the foothills of this mountain that is the keris. What you believe to be a "good look[ing] keris" are not necessarily as desirable as you may currently believe.

flexter3 · 27th September 2016, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

If you will forgive me Cal, but based upon your line of questioning so far i get the impression that the keris is a relatively new subject of study for you. One think i can tell you for sure is that the keris is a lifelong study. I have been collecting and studying keris for decades now and still feel like i am only in the foothills of this mountain that is the keris. What you believe to be a "good look[ing] keris" are not necessarily as desirable as you may currently believe.

Totally agree with you David

NotoriousCal · 27th September 2016, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

If you will forgive me Cal, but based upon your line of questioning so far i get the impression that the keris is a relatively new subject of study for you. One think i can tell you for sure is that the keris is a lifelong study. I have been collecting and studying keris for decades now and still feel like i am only in the foothills of this mountain that is the keris. What you believe to be a "good look[ing] keris" are not necessarily as desirable as you may currently believe.

when you say that you are only in the foothills, I understand what you mean. I missed a real good opportunity to own probably a really good keris. In not getting the keris I learned a valuable lesson. I'm very new to keris and I am currently studying keris pamor.

Thank you for your comments.
Cal

NotoriousCal · 27th September 2016, 05:50 AM

[QUOTE=David]If you will forgive me Cal, but based upon your line of questioning so far i get the impression that the keris is a relatively new subject of study for you. One think i can tell you for sure is that the keris is a lifelong study. I have been collecting and studying keris for decades now and still feel like i am only in the foothills of this mountain that is the keris. What you believe to be a "good look[ing] keris" are not necessarily as desirable as you may currently believe.

[/QUOTE are]
Are all keris blades one of a kind? I'm thinking only if they are made around the same time frame can they be alike.

A. G. Maisey · 27th September 2016, 06:05 AM

To emphasise what David has already said.

I am 76 years old, I began to collect keris at the age of 12, I began to seriously study keris at the age of 14, I studied with Empu Suparman Supowijoyo for about 15 years, I have numbered amongst my friends other well known empus, pande keris and m'ranggis.

I have a fair working knowledge of the Javanese and Madurese keris, I know a bit less about the Balinese keris, of other keris I know almost nothing.

Cal, if you wish to learn about the keris you can count on a very lengthy course of study.

However, that does not answer your question.

It is very difficult to judge the physical quality of a keris from photos. I am often asked to give an opinion on the quality of keris and I almost invariably qualify my answer by saying something like:- "--- my opinion could be very different if I held this keris in my hand ---".

If you buy on an auction site like ebay, you are backing your own judgement, and at your stage of learning, that would be a rather unwise thing to do. The wisest way for a beginner to buy is to seek out a reliable dealer who knows what he is selling, tell the dealer what you want and trust his judgement.

NotoriousCal · 27th September 2016, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

To emphasise what David has already said.

I am 76 years old, I began to collect keris at the age of 12, I began to seriously study keris at the age of 14, I studied with Empu Suparman Supowijoyo for about 15 years, I have numbered amongst my friends other well known empus, pande keris and m'ranggis.

I have a fair working knowledge of the Javanese and Madurese keris, I know a bit less about the Balinese keris, of other keris I know almost nothing.

Cal, if you wish to learn about the keris you can count on a very lengthy course of study.

However, that does not answer your question.

It is very difficult to judge the physical quality of a keris from photos. I am often asked to give an opinion on the quality of keris and I almost invariably qualify my answer by saying something like:- "--- my opinion could be very different if I held this keris in my hand ---".

If you buy on an auction site like ebay, you are backing your own judgement, and at your stage of learning, that would be a rather unwise thing to do. The wisest way for a beginner to buy is to seek out a reliable dealer who knows what he is selling, tell the dealer what you want and trust his judgement.

I've seen the evidence and I am intrigued. I'm just trying to narrow down a good starting point. Thank you for the work you have done. The only thing now is to find a good reliable dealer. Hint hint lol

rasdan · 27th September 2016, 11:49 AM

Hi Cal, welcome to the keris world. Just beware of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in your journey..

NotoriousCal · 27th September 2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

Hi Cal, welcome to the keris world. Just beware of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in your journey..

Lol!

VANDOO · 27th September 2016, 04:51 PM

TO REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN MOST FIELDS OF COLLECTING. ESPECIALLY WITH KERIS YOU HAVE TO STAY FOCUSED AND STUDY LONG. I HAVE TOO MANY INTERESTS THAT RANGE THE FULL SPECTRUM OF COLLECTING SO WILL NEVER BECOME COMPETENT IN KERIS KNOWLEDGE. JUST A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND MASTER OF NONE. SO I JUST COLLECT WHAT I LIKE AND CAN AFFORD. ONE CAN TRUST THAT YOU HAVE GOOD TASTE IN KERIS OR TO BE MORE SAFE AND BUY FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS DEVOTED HIS TIME TO LEARNING ABOUT KERIS. THEN YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE GETTING SOMETHING OF QUALITY NEW OR OLD AND HAVE IT PROPERLY IDENTIFIED FOR YOU. KERIS COLLECTING IS A CHALLENGING FIELD OF STUDY FOR THOSE WHO ARE DETERMINED TO LEARN AND THE CHART ABOVE SUMS IT UP WELL. THE MAIN THING IS TO ENJOY WHILE YOU LEARN AND COLLECT, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO STRUGGLE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO NOT ENJOY.

Green · 28th September 2016, 04:55 PM

Based on Rasdan's Dunning-Kruger effect graph, i can safely say that i'm currently at the 'valley of despair' phase. not least because the money is running out just when i think i can narrow my focus and be a bit more eclectic (?) in my purchases.

one of the best ways i find to increase knowledge in arts/paintings and antiques is to go to museums and see lot and lots of items so that i can have a good feel of what is good and what standard to base on .

except that in case of keris, at least in malaysia i feel museums are not the best place to see the best specimens... the best are often in the hands of collectors rather than in museums...

David · 28th September 2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

except that in case of keris, at least in malaysia i feel museums are not the best place to see the best specimens... the best are often in the hands of collectors rather than in museums...

And while i don't want to indict ALL museums, that may be for the best as i see far too many museums who mislabel keris and have absolutely no idea how to maintain them physically, leaving them to rust away. There are also a number of museums who have keris in their collections that they never display.

27th September 2016, 03:35 AM	#1
NotoriousCal Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 24	keris good and bad? Hello group, I hope you are well. I have been contemplating keris over the past few days and I have a question. I have seen good look keris being sold for next to nothing. Is the only way to know if you have a good keris is to buy it? Maybe because there are so many keris being sold is because some have approached the keris they bought in the wrong manner. It seems as though a keris should compliment the owner. Your feed back is much appreciated.

27th September 2016, 11:49 AM	#8
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 367	Hi Cal, welcome to the keris world. Just beware of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in your journey.. Attached Images

27th September 2016, 05:50 AM	#5
NotoriousCal Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 24	[QUOTE=David]If you will forgive me Cal, but based upon your line of questioning so far i get the impression that the keris is a relatively new subject of study for you. One think i can tell you for sure is that the keris is a lifelong study. I have been collecting and studying keris for decades now and still feel like i am only in the foothills of this mountain that is the keris. What you believe to be a "good look[ing] keris" are not necessarily as desirable as you may currently believe. [/QUOTE are] Are all keris blades one of a kind? I'm thinking only if they are made around the same time frame can they be alike.

27th September 2016, 06:05 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	To emphasise what David has already said. I am 76 years old, I began to collect keris at the age of 12, I began to seriously study keris at the age of 14, I studied with Empu Suparman Supowijoyo for about 15 years, I have numbered amongst my friends other well known empus, pande keris and m'ranggis. I have a fair working knowledge of the Javanese and Madurese keris, I know a bit less about the Balinese keris, of other keris I know almost nothing. Cal, if you wish to learn about the keris you can count on a very lengthy course of study. However, that does not answer your question. It is very difficult to judge the physical quality of a keris from photos. I am often asked to give an opinion on the quality of keris and I almost invariably qualify my answer by saying something like:- "--- my opinion could be very different if I held this keris in my hand ---". If you buy on an auction site like ebay, you are backing your own judgement, and at your stage of learning, that would be a rather unwise thing to do. The wisest way for a beginner to buy is to seek out a reliable dealer who knows what he is selling, tell the dealer what you want and trust his judgement.

27th September 2016, 04:51 PM	#10
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	TO REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IN MOST FIELDS OF COLLECTING. ESPECIALLY WITH KERIS YOU HAVE TO STAY FOCUSED AND STUDY LONG. I HAVE TOO MANY INTERESTS THAT RANGE THE FULL SPECTRUM OF COLLECTING SO WILL NEVER BECOME COMPETENT IN KERIS KNOWLEDGE. JUST A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND MASTER OF NONE. SO I JUST COLLECT WHAT I LIKE AND CAN AFFORD. ONE CAN TRUST THAT YOU HAVE GOOD TASTE IN KERIS OR TO BE MORE SAFE AND BUY FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS DEVOTED HIS TIME TO LEARNING ABOUT KERIS. THEN YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE GETTING SOMETHING OF QUALITY NEW OR OLD AND HAVE IT PROPERLY IDENTIFIED FOR YOU. KERIS COLLECTING IS A CHALLENGING FIELD OF STUDY FOR THOSE WHO ARE DETERMINED TO LEARN AND THE CHART ABOVE SUMS IT UP WELL. THE MAIN THING IS TO ENJOY WHILE YOU LEARN AND COLLECT, LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO STRUGGLE WITH SOMETHING YOU DO NOT ENJOY.

28th September 2016, 04:55 PM	#11
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 307	Based on Rasdan's Dunning-Kruger effect graph, i can safely say that i'm currently at the 'valley of despair' phase. not least because the money is running out just when i think i can narrow my focus and be a bit more eclectic (?) in my purchases. one of the best ways i find to increase knowledge in arts/paintings and antiques is to go to museums and see lot and lots of items so that i can have a good feel of what is good and what standard to base on . except that in case of keris, at least in malaysia i feel museums are not the best place to see the best specimens... the best are often in the hands of collectors rather than in museums...