Palembang Keris - Page 2

Pendita65 · 5th August 2026, 04:56 PM

Dear Mr. Maisey,

i forgot to take a picture before staining, as it was white before the warangan, and my friend who stains his own Keris said that the Keris did not react so quick on the warangan it took some time before it started to become visible, I rather like the stain, as i have others that are allmost similar in color. For now i am satisfied. The remaining traces of gold didn't dissapear so i am happy with that as well. I need to fill in some small damages on the wrongko but that's not to much work.

regards, Martin

A. G. Maisey · 5th August 2026, 11:36 PM

Thanks for your response Martin.

In these photos, your keris looks very much like the result from just a vinegar soak, or repeated brush applications, of household vinegar. You have advised that it was white before commencement of staining, & that your friend, who is experienced in blade cleaning & staining, held the opinion that this keris was a bit slow in generating a reaction to the warangan.

From a photo I cannot comment with confidence on whether your blade has been stained to the expected best result possible. In the photo it seems to be too pale and to lack contrast, but it is an old blade, and it could well be made of old style material, which can easily be stained too dark to the point where the pamor becomes difficult to see. So maybe your blade is as good as it can be.

Old blades normally react quite quickly to re-staining, since your blade did not react quickly it poses the question of why it did not react quickly. I do not know of any way to find an explanation for a slow reaction in an old blade. Possibly the weather --- heat, sunshine, humidity, all these things can affect the staining process. An experienced person can often understand why a blade is not responding as expected, but usually only while the stain is being attempted.

I have found that newly made blades are the most difficult to stain, but when the stain has been successfully completed, these difficult blades are usually extremely impressive. One keris that I made took me two 10 hour days to stain, & I needed to work in full sunlight in 30 odd degrees celsius to get the stain to take, however, when it was completed this stain was, and still is, exceptional.

The method of application of the stain is something that has considerable effect. If the stain is simply brushed on the result is normally not all that good, if a commercial soak approach is used, results vary considerably & often do not endure well. I use a method that is inherently dangerous, it is the way in which keraton pusakas in Surakarta are supposed to be stained, but this method is not one that most people care to use, even though it can produce the best result possible, it is not a method that I ever recommend to anybody.

However, all in all, I think you have done a good job on this stain job, maybe it is as good as can be done with this particular blade, maybe not, but we can see the pamor clearly, & in the photo I can see no unwanted colours.

It is indeed, pretty good.

Pendita65 · 7th August 2026, 01:40 PM

Hi Mr. Maisey, excuse for the late reply, and I took some pictures on a white ground so the staining is beter visible. I like how it turned out and yes the pamor could be a bit brighter but I do rather like this stain.

Regards, Martin

A. G. Maisey · 7th August 2026, 09:14 PM

If that is how it truly looks Martin, it is a very good result.

The pamor is a very good representation of what I would expect to see in a keris like that, it should not be brighter.

Pendita65 · 8th August 2026, 08:53 AM

Hi Mr, Maisey, this is the color of the Keris, and with better light and on the white background it is much better to see the true color.

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 08:09 AM

Thank you for your confirmation,Martin.

Gustav · Yesterday, 02:42 PM

Speaking of the dangerous method of staining - while searching for something completely different I stumbled upon realgar wine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realgar_wine

Which leads to a couple of questions.
Since when did Javanese start to stain the blades with a solution which has realgar as a part of it? Are there other cultures, which did use it on blades around 1300-1400?

If I read, that in China it POSSIBLY was used as "protection against disease, snakes, and evil spirits", so it would have apotropaic qualities - is there some kind of account about similar apotropaic qualities of realgar on Java?

Edit: here a source for use of realgar in China, which indeed mentions its apotropaic quality: https://de.scribd.com/document/54137...-and-Tradition

A. G. Maisey · Today, 03:22 AM

Arsenic has a long history of medicinal use in Europe & Britain:-

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8860286/

I also know that it was/is used in Javanese jamu & Chinese traditional medicines sold in Jawa.

I do not know when it started to be used in Jawa & other places as a blade stain.

The warangan sold in Jawa is an unrefined, naturally occurring mineral that does contain arsenic.

I have been told by a very experienced collector of high quality Indo-Persian weapons that a mineral similar --- or maybe the same --- as warangan was used in India to stain blades.

A. G. Maisey · Today, 03:32 AM

This post has been deleted because it was in the wrong thread.

7th August 2026, 01:40 PM	#33
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 194	Hi Mr. Maisey, excuse for the late reply, and I took some pictures on a white ground so the staining is beter visible. I like how it turned out and yes the pamor could be a bit brighter but I do rather like this stain. Regards, Martin Attached Images

Yesterday, 02:42 PM	#37
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,347	Speaking of the dangerous method of staining - while searching for something completely different I stumbled upon realgar wine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realgar_wine Which leads to a couple of questions. Since when did Javanese start to stain the blades with a solution which has realgar as a part of it? Are there other cultures, which did use it on blades around 1300-1400? If I read, that in China it POSSIBLY was used as "protection against disease, snakes, and evil spirits", so it would have apotropaic qualities - is there some kind of account about similar apotropaic qualities of realgar on Java? Edit: here a source for use of realgar in China, which indeed mentions its apotropaic quality: https://de.scribd.com/document/54137...-and-Tradition Last edited by Gustav; Yesterday at 03:29 PM.

Today, 03:32 AM	#39
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,263	This post has been deleted because it was in the wrong thread. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; Today at 12:57 PM.

5th August 2026, 04:56 PM	#31
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 194	Dear Mr. Maisey, i forgot to take a picture before staining, as it was white before the warangan, and my friend who stains his own Keris said that the Keris did not react so quick on the warangan it took some time before it started to become visible, I rather like the stain, as i have others that are allmost similar in color. For now i am satisfied. The remaining traces of gold didn't dissapear so i am happy with that as well. I need to fill in some small damages on the wrongko but that's not to much work. regards, Martin

5th August 2026, 11:36 PM	#32
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,263	Thanks for your response Martin. In these photos, your keris looks very much like the result from just a vinegar soak, or repeated brush applications, of household vinegar. You have advised that it was white before commencement of staining, & that your friend, who is experienced in blade cleaning & staining, held the opinion that this keris was a bit slow in generating a reaction to the warangan. From a photo I cannot comment with confidence on whether your blade has been stained to the expected best result possible. In the photo it seems to be too pale and to lack contrast, but it is an old blade, and it could well be made of old style material, which can easily be stained too dark to the point where the pamor becomes difficult to see. So maybe your blade is as good as it can be. Old blades normally react quite quickly to re-staining, since your blade did not react quickly it poses the question of why it did not react quickly. I do not know of any way to find an explanation for a slow reaction in an old blade. Possibly the weather --- heat, sunshine, humidity, all these things can affect the staining process. An experienced person can often understand why a blade is not responding as expected, but usually only while the stain is being attempted. I have found that newly made blades are the most difficult to stain, but when the stain has been successfully completed, these difficult blades are usually extremely impressive. One keris that I made took me two 10 hour days to stain, & I needed to work in full sunlight in 30 odd degrees celsius to get the stain to take, however, when it was completed this stain was, and still is, exceptional. The method of application of the stain is something that has considerable effect. If the stain is simply brushed on the result is normally not all that good, if a commercial soak approach is used, results vary considerably & often do not endure well. I use a method that is inherently dangerous, it is the way in which keraton pusakas in Surakarta are supposed to be stained, but this method is not one that most people care to use, even though it can produce the best result possible, it is not a method that I ever recommend to anybody. However, all in all, I think you have done a good job on this stain job, maybe it is as good as can be done with this particular blade, maybe not, but we can see the pamor clearly, & in the photo I can see no unwanted colours. It is indeed, pretty good.

7th August 2026, 09:14 PM	#34
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,263	If that is how it truly looks Martin, it is a very good result. The pamor is a very good representation of what I would expect to see in a keris like that, it should not be brighter.

8th August 2026, 08:53 AM	#35
Pendita65 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 194	Hi Mr, Maisey, this is the color of the Keris, and with better light and on the white background it is much better to see the true color.

Yesterday, 08:09 AM	#36
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,263	Thank you for your confirmation,Martin.

Today, 03:22 AM	#38
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,263	Arsenic has a long history of medicinal use in Europe & Britain:- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8860286/ I also know that it was/is used in Javanese jamu & Chinese traditional medicines sold in Jawa. I do not know when it started to be used in Jawa & other places as a blade stain. The warangan sold in Jawa is an unrefined, naturally occurring mineral that does contain arsenic. I have been told by a very experienced collector of high quality Indo-Persian weapons that a mineral similar --- or maybe the same --- as warangan was used in India to stain blades.