Ethics and Policies

drdavid · 19th December 2009, 09:50 PM

This is an important thread and one which should enhance the value of the warung. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of promoting ethical behaviour and as Alan Maisey has said using the utilitarian approach is probably the most functional in this circumstance. Promoting ethical behaviour is one thing, having all the members of the warung do so is another.

If I might offer a few thoughts .
In the code of conduct points #5

Quote:

Do not engage in any commercially oriented behavior

and #7

Quote:

Behave in a respectful manner towards other members, and their opinions

are particularly pertinent in this discussion. Point #5 is fairly obvious, point #7 is asking us not to treat our fellow warung members badly, that includes deceiving them as to the true purpose of our questions, and using their information for our own commercial gain without their express permission. I think it might be a good idea that all new members (and quite possibly all existing members) be asked to confirm that they have read and accept the code of conduct of the warung before being allowed to post. Secondly I think that a moratorium period between being accepted as a member and being allowed to post (2-4 weeks) might disuade opportunistic behaviour. Finally I believe any changes decided on as a result of this thread should be made to allow the warung to improve its role as an educational and sharing group and enhance the ability of the moderators to avoid exploitation of the group.
David

David · 19th December 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdavid

I think it might be a good idea that all new members (and quite possibly all existing members) be asked to confirm that they have read and accept the code of conduct of the warung before being allowed to post.

An excellent idea David.

Naga Sasra · 19th December 2009, 10:51 PM

Dear Forum Members,

As I stated back in post # 62, I believe any change of the forum rules must start at the registration level. A carefully written questionere followed by a statement and a simple check on either I agree or I disagree to the forum rules, will go a long way dealing with the Group B potential members.

This would also allow the moderators to act swiftly in the event the rules are violated.

But I will of cause leave any ruling to our very capable moderators, and please consider this just a suggestion.

David · 19th December 2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

But I will of cause leave any ruling to our very capable moderators, and please consider this just a suggestion.

Eric, your suggestions are always welcome.

guwaya · 4th January 2010, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naga Sasra

Dear Forum Members,

As I stated back in post # 62, I believe any change of the forum rules must start at the registration level. A carefully written questionere followed by a statement and a simple check on either I agree or I disagree to the forum rules, will go a long way dealing with the Group B potential members.

This would also allow the moderators to act swiftly in the event the rules are violated.

But I will of cause leave any ruling to our very capable moderators, and please consider this just a suggestion.

Hello to the Forum,

As I just saw that member brekele is offering a formerly here presentet keris sundang parallel at the swap forum and at ebay - there two other keris with less informations - I would like to support the here made proposals from Naga Sasra, as I also think it has to start with the registration process.

I also think it would be a good ides to make a brief describing of someone's interests in following the forum compulsive - together with the from Naga Sasra proposed questionaries. But this also Naga Sasra already stated.

Anyway - this practise would mean to invest some time in the beginning, a kind of giving and not just taking.

Paul Duffy · 7th January 2010, 12:30 AM

I've been reading this thread with great interest.I am a keris collector,not a dealer although I am mindful of values and asking prices.
I agree with the words in #5,"do not engage in commercially orientated behavior" and 7 'behave in a respectful manner towards other members and their opinions".

I have been collecting antique arms edged weapons for many years,even before the internet and ebay.These are wonderful tools,eg this site exists and is used.However I agree with Alan Maisey's comments on identifying and buying items from internet photos.I don't,and I've read many comments and complaints in magazines and websites from people who are dissatisfied after buying off the net.

In a perfect world we wouldn't be concerned about "covert dealers" etc,but it's not a perfect world.In past years I've believed stories about "rare finds" and provenance,bought something, only to find out later,sometimes several years later that the stories weren't true.In response to queries to dealers I've been told that"Oh,I believed him".

As to options on policy changes:
1 I agree that dealers should be open and transperent,and presume this would be at the initial registration process.Then if there is a problem,their access can be blocked,and perhaps the Forum could have a list of delinquent members.

2Dealers could lodge a deposit which could be forfeited.

3 The Forum could endeavour to organise a return & refund system.Although I appreciate this would be very difficult due to the international nature of the Forum and it's members.

The Forum is successful,it does have a good reputation.I've thought about how the international auction houses build and maintain reputations.Good quality catalogues electronic and paper,eg Herman Historica,who sometimes list keris,Fischers in Luzern,Sothebies & Christies,Bonhams etc.These houses also have carefully set out terms & conditions which include a right of return and refund.Of course they charge fees to the vendor and purchaser.Can similar terms be applied here?

There has been embarasment when auction house have been "outed",and this will affect their business.
This may be difficult due to the international character of the internet,as an item can be listed anywhere in the world,and be available instantly to the world,without being inspected by a representative of the Forum.

Does the Forum want to accept the responsibility of being a "dealer",probably not.
Does this lead to the conclusion that we as members have to be "self regulating", yes I think it does.

I joined to learn,and gather info.The photos and illustrations are very helpful,so are the commentaries.I acknowledge that it is up to me to accept the quality or value of comments.

I hope that the Forum will continue to benefit pure collectors.

Rick · 7th January 2010, 01:02 AM

Hi Paul.
This site has no interest in becoming commercially involved in any internet (or otherwise) sales other than offering a free Swap Forum to members .

Everyone needs to read the disclaimer and rules there before participating .

Okay, we sell T shirts now and then at cost ; but that's it .

7th January 2010, 12:30 AM	#6
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	Ethics I've been reading this thread with great interest.I am a keris collector,not a dealer although I am mindful of values and asking prices. I agree with the words in #5,"do not engage in commercially orientated behavior" and 7 'behave in a respectful manner towards other members and their opinions". I have been collecting antique arms edged weapons for many years,even before the internet and ebay.These are wonderful tools,eg this site exists and is used.However I agree with Alan Maisey's comments on identifying and buying items from internet photos.I don't,and I've read many comments and complaints in magazines and websites from people who are dissatisfied after buying off the net. In a perfect world we wouldn't be concerned about "covert dealers" etc,but it's not a perfect world.In past years I've believed stories about "rare finds" and provenance,bought something, only to find out later,sometimes several years later that the stories weren't true.In response to queries to dealers I've been told that"Oh,I believed him". As to options on policy changes: 1 I agree that dealers should be open and transperent,and presume this would be at the initial registration process.Then if there is a problem,their access can be blocked,and perhaps the Forum could have a list of delinquent members. 2Dealers could lodge a deposit which could be forfeited. 3 The Forum could endeavour to organise a return & refund system.Although I appreciate this would be very difficult due to the international nature of the Forum and it's members. The Forum is successful,it does have a good reputation.I've thought about how the international auction houses build and maintain reputations.Good quality catalogues electronic and paper,eg Herman Historica,who sometimes list keris,Fischers in Luzern,Sothebies & Christies,Bonhams etc.These houses also have carefully set out terms & conditions which include a right of return and refund.Of course they charge fees to the vendor and purchaser.Can similar terms be applied here? There has been embarasment when auction house have been "outed",and this will affect their business. This may be difficult due to the international character of the internet,as an item can be listed anywhere in the world,and be available instantly to the world,without being inspected by a representative of the Forum. Does the Forum want to accept the responsibility of being a "dealer",probably not. Does this lead to the conclusion that we as members have to be "self regulating", yes I think it does. I joined to learn,and gather info.The photos and illustrations are very helpful,so are the commentaries.I acknowledge that it is up to me to accept the quality or value of comments. I hope that the Forum will continue to benefit pure collectors.

19th December 2009, 10:51 PM	#3
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Dear Forum Members, As I stated back in post # 62, I believe any change of the forum rules must start at the registration level. A carefully written questionere followed by a statement and a simple check on either I agree or I disagree to the forum rules, will go a long way dealing with the Group B potential members. This would also allow the moderators to act swiftly in the event the rules are violated. But I will of cause leave any ruling to our very capable moderators, and please consider this just a suggestion.

7th January 2010, 01:02 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,268	Hi Paul. This site has no interest in becoming commercially involved in any internet (or otherwise) sales other than offering a free Swap Forum to members . Everyone needs to read the disclaimer and rules there before participating . Okay, we sell T shirts now and then at cost ; but that's it .