My new one

Alan62 · 28th November 2007, 03:58 AM

Hi folks
I was wondering if you would mind giving me your thoughts on this one.
The handle has been recovered with what appears to be nylon string but other than that it seems to be a nice piece but I would like to hear your thoughts
Thanks

tunggulametung · 28th November 2007, 08:10 AM

Hi,

An elegant piece! The blade certainly has reasonably some age (early 20 c.)? I agree that the hilt wrapper has been coming in so much later time and I believe yor kris has saperate ganya and sea ivory pommel.

I cannot give any further comments on style or origin since my limited experience with Moro pieces, but I like the blade groove, very unique and adds the overall characters.

Any plan to etch the blade?

Thanks!

Bill · 28th November 2007, 11:38 AM

Great kris. I think the wrap on the hilt is Abaca fiber. Not that uncommon for wraps but usually woven (smaller diameters) & often covered with resin. Although the cord looks machine made, it's made by hand. I'd guess a latter replacement due to it's condition.

Alan62 · 28th November 2007, 12:42 PM

Thank You Folks
I do intend to etch the blade
Can you define sea ivory,would that be Walrus tusk or Whale Tooth ?
Also is the shape of the carving a Tucan or bird?

Battara · 28th November 2007, 08:57 PM

Alan, I think you have a nice piece. It is much older, although I agree that the wrapping is very recent. I would put it at possibly an early Maguindanao with elephant ivory. The ivory pommel is usually in the shape of a modified/stylized cockatu head, only in this case without the back crest. This is not unusual especially for earlier forms that used a smaller pommel according to Cato.

What throws me off is the type of blade fuller - never seen this on any Moro blade before now.

Everything else appears right though. Yes etch it - I'm sure a pattern will come out.

Alan62 · 29th November 2007, 12:05 AM

Thank You Battara
I attempted etching and I know these would look great if I new what I was doing but here is the results of my inexperience
The new one with the fuller has gold on the tip and it runs part way down the fuller

Battara · 29th November 2007, 01:27 AM

Very nice. Is it gold or brass? Brass will react - darken upon etch. Gold won't react at all.

Alan62 · 29th November 2007, 02:12 AM

Thanks
It must be gold as it just remains golden and does not darken
The dot on the other might be brass as it does darken but then with just a gentle rub it looks like a mirror, it stays very shiny

kai · 1st December 2007, 12:16 AM

Hello Alan,

Nice new aquisition and your other piece is just great!

How long are the blades? I'm not so sure about the Maguindanao attribution - what speaks against a Sulu blade, Jose?

I agree with Jose that this pommel looks like elephant ivory. (Sea ivory used by Moros is often from male Dugong but other sources are also known.)

Could it be that such an asymetrical, narrow fuller was inspired by colonial blades? I seem to remember 2 other kris with similarly unusual fuller.

You really have to be careful with ferric chloride! Ammonia is better for neutralizing in cracks and other crevices.

I'm very partial to cleaning and staining with weak vinegar since it is gentle on the blade and doesn't need any extra neutralization step - just thoroughly drying the blade (e.g. with the aid of a hair dryer) is needed. Try to heat the blade and vinegar for staining (after finishing cleaning, including all rust).
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=15
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...84&postcount=4

Regards,
Kai

Alan62 · 1st December 2007, 03:37 PM

Thanks Kia
The blades measured down the center fom the hilt to the tip are 20.25 and 21.38
I intend to clean and re etch using just viniger

Battara · 1st December 2007, 05:39 PM

I took another look at this - it might be Sulu, I'm just used to Sulu being a little more eliptical in the mouth, but it is possible....

tunggulametung · 8th December 2007, 07:36 AM

Ah, glad to see the etched blade

IMHO I still think the pommel made of sea ivory. Probably difficult to define which sea ivory, but most poppular material is gigi ikan duyung (dugong). It has more glassy appearence compared to elephant ivory, and the natural hairline crack is different.

28th November 2007, 03:58 AM	#1
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	My new one Hi folks I was wondering if you would mind giving me your thoughts on this one. The handle has been recovered with what appears to be nylon string but other than that it seems to be a nice piece but I would like to hear your thoughts Thanks

28th November 2007, 12:42 PM	#4
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thank You Folks I do intend to etch the blade Can you define sea ivory,would that be Walrus tusk or Whale Tooth ? Also is the shape of the carving a Tucan or bird? Last edited by Alan62; 28th November 2007 at 01:00 PM.

28th November 2007, 08:10 AM	#2
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Hi, An elegant piece! The blade certainly has reasonably some age (early 20 c.)? I agree that the hilt wrapper has been coming in so much later time and I believe yor kris has saperate ganya and sea ivory pommel. I cannot give any further comments on style or origin since my limited experience with Moro pieces, but I like the blade groove, very unique and adds the overall characters. Any plan to etch the blade? Thanks!

28th November 2007, 11:38 AM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Great kris. I think the wrap on the hilt is Abaca fiber. Not that uncommon for wraps but usually woven (smaller diameters) & often covered with resin. Although the cord looks machine made, it's made by hand. I'd guess a latter replacement due to it's condition.

28th November 2007, 08:57 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Alan, I think you have a nice piece. It is much older, although I agree that the wrapping is very recent. I would put it at possibly an early Maguindanao with elephant ivory. The ivory pommel is usually in the shape of a modified/stylized cockatu head, only in this case without the back crest. This is not unusual especially for earlier forms that used a smaller pommel according to Cato. What throws me off is the type of blade fuller - never seen this on any Moro blade before now. Everything else appears right though. Yes etch it - I'm sure a pattern will come out.

29th November 2007, 12:05 AM	#6
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thank You Battara I attempted etching and I know these would look great if I new what I was doing but here is the results of my inexperience The new one with the fuller has gold on the tip and it runs part way down the fuller

29th November 2007, 01:27 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Very nice. Is it gold or brass? Brass will react - darken upon etch. Gold won't react at all.

29th November 2007, 02:12 AM	#8
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thanks It must be gold as it just remains golden and does not darken The dot on the other might be brass as it does darken but then with just a gentle rub it looks like a mirror, it stays very shiny

1st December 2007, 12:16 AM	#9
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Alan, Nice new aquisition and your other piece is just great! How long are the blades? I'm not so sure about the Maguindanao attribution - what speaks against a Sulu blade, Jose? I agree with Jose that this pommel looks like elephant ivory. (Sea ivory used by Moros is often from male Dugong but other sources are also known.) Could it be that such an asymetrical, narrow fuller was inspired by colonial blades? I seem to remember 2 other kris with similarly unusual fuller. You really have to be careful with ferric chloride! Ammonia is better for neutralizing in cracks and other crevices. I'm very partial to cleaning and staining with weak vinegar since it is gentle on the blade and doesn't need any extra neutralization step - just thoroughly drying the blade (e.g. with the aid of a hair dryer) is needed. Try to heat the blade and vinegar for staining (after finishing cleaning, including all rust). http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=15 http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...84&postcount=4 Regards, Kai

1st December 2007, 03:37 PM	#10
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thanks Kia The blades measured down the center fom the hilt to the tip are 20.25 and 21.38 I intend to clean and re etch using just viniger

1st December 2007, 05:39 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I took another look at this - it might be Sulu, I'm just used to Sulu being a little more eliptical in the mouth, but it is possible....

8th December 2007, 07:36 AM	#12
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Ah, glad to see the etched blade IMHO I still think the pommel made of sea ivory. Probably difficult to define which sea ivory, but most poppular material is gigi ikan duyung (dugong). It has more glassy appearence compared to elephant ivory, and the natural hairline crack is different.