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4th October 2006, 12:26 AM | #1 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
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Very nice pieces.Completely original and intact with no restorations. Zifir,your existence here is a great plus,as the only member who can read and translate Turkish written in Ottoman alphabet. I must learn that too,when I find some free time.I just need to ask about the date on the first one. It must be 1216 instead of 1116,not? I think age would matter a lot on the rarity and price of a piece so intact and complete,especially if it is an early date like 1704.
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4th October 2006, 12:40 AM | #2 |
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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The silver one is 1216, the gold one is 1116. That's my reading, too
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4th October 2006, 01:34 AM | #3 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 228
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erlikhan,
Thank you for your comment. I did not have much experience in reading and translating inscriptions on swords or other materials, I am used to read formal documents and historical texts. I learned that you cannot expect similar formality from yatagan inscriptions. Most of the time, there are no rules and the people who inscribed them can be considered between being literate and illeterate. I am learning it by doing it. My interest in yatagans is just forcing me to do it Of course, my only expertise is reading the inscriptions. I can't say much about age or other specifications of a yatagan by just looking its material. I believe my reading as 1116 is correct. But to state the obvious that's just an inscription and there is no rule that an inscription cannot not lie. I suppose there were also Grand Bazaar seller type guys back then... |
4th October 2006, 02:40 AM | #4 |
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Location: Greensboro, NC
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While we cannot determine from your pictures whether or not your blades are wootz I can say that there are examples of wootz bladed yataghans, albeit not that common. There is a lovely example of one pictured in Sasche's book "Damascus Steel" on p. 79, figure 127. I also know of several examples in private collections.
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4th October 2006, 09:38 AM | #5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Istanbul
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Zifir,sorry. My confusement because the dates of the two swords are very similar. I didnt notice the date on the gold one and thought you wrote 1216 for the upper picture. Then yes, gold one is a real rarity and beauty,as it is so complete and intact with especially 300 years of age! And about literacy level of artisans writing on yataghans, yes I have heard it from several experts before.Much of them were inscribed by less literate swordmakers, perhaps many of them just copying 'shapes' written on a paper and given to them.
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4th October 2006, 04:25 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Istanbul
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The second line in the first gold inscription still escapes me. But I have the translation for the second gold inscription. This time I got a little assistance from a friend who has more literary taste than I do. So you won't be exposed to my terribble translation for once
Ey gönül bir can içün her cana zillet eyleme İşret-i dünya içün sultana zillet eyleme Do not hold oh heart all the lives in contempt just for a life Do not abase the sultan for the pleasures of mundane life |
30th November 2006, 02:07 PM | #7 |
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i'm pretty sure this is wootz, but i could be wrong. my blade lamination knowledge stops at filo weapons...
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30th November 2006, 04:04 PM | #8 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
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Very interesting.
We usually have a knee-jerk reaction of calling every wootz blade "Persian" or "Indian" as if the knowledge how to make wootz was limited to these 2 countries. But here are Yataghan blades, typical Ottoman weapon and ... made of wootz. Were there Persian/Indian masters in Turkey? Do we need to postulate their existence at all? I guess there were enough Turkish, Caucasian and Balkan masters who knew how to make wootz blades. |
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