Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th March 2024, 11:44 PM   #1
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default African Spear

Perhaps African. It is just shy of 7 feet overall. It is in three parts, much like a Maasai spear: the butt end is pointed and is 37". The wood center piece is 18". The Pointy piece is 27" with the spear head itself about 8".

Any thoughts as to origin?
Attached Images
 
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 02:37 AM   #2
Araņa_del_Sol
Member
 
Araņa_del_Sol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 46
Default

Maasai, Samburu, Karamojong, Turkana, etc. come to mind as possible sources. This spear type is common in East Africa.

- ADS
Araņa_del_Sol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 02:49 AM   #3
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

It "feels good" to me if you know what I mean.
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 11:41 AM   #4
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Hello Ed

Please show me the back of the spear.

IMHO the Maasai have more primitive production, here is a modern example.

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
  
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 06:22 PM   #5
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Araņa_del_Sol View Post
Maasai, Samburu, Karamojong, Turkana, etc. come to mind as possible sources. This spear type is common in East Africa.

- ADS
I agree, I know this spear (had some myself) as being a Samburu spear, very common among the tourists in Kenia . They are even reproduced by companies like cold steel , they are nice spears but fairly common.
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 07:33 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

I don't know much about spears, especially not about African ones but the one in question shows a very different quality as the other shown ones.
I had some antique Maasai spears, the description of the three segments point to a origin like suggested, but the tip looks different.
Ed, can you show more from the spear? Haft and butt?

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 09:38 PM   #7
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

Here are some more pictures. The two sides of the head are virtually the same. Please ask if you need more description.
Attached Images
    
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 09:41 PM   #8
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

FWIW I took a look at the Cold Steel version. Not really close. CS is "manufactured". This one is "crafted" if you see what I mean.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Ed; 17th March 2024 at 09:52 PM.
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 10:56 PM   #9
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Ed, I may upset you. This spear is made in Kenya or Tanzania for tourists.

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
 
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2024, 11:47 PM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

It's indeed typical for the Maasai and surrounding ethnos but it seems very recently to my eyes. I don't think it's manufactured.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2024, 02:14 AM   #11
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

It seems rather ungainly for a tourist piece.
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2024, 07:58 AM   #12
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
Default

both the spears shown are made for the tourist market,


as for the cold steel version , if you see any of their products they are made with industrial processes


we are not allowed showing for sale products but the internet shows many such in 3 pieces like yours called Samburu spears, run a search you will find them, I had 2, sold them


anyway, lots of previous threads


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=samburu






http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=samburu

milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2024, 11:54 PM   #13
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Massai posing for tourists
Attached Images
  
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2024, 03:03 PM   #14
Peter B.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 43
Default

Hello Ed,

can we see a larger photo of the blade and shaft connection?
Can you tell if it is welded or forged?
To me this doesn't necessarily look like a tourist piece, especially because of the length, which is inconvenient for tourists.

Best regards
Peter

Last edited by Peter B.; 19th March 2024 at 07:36 PM. Reason: salutation was missing
Peter B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2024, 03:11 PM   #15
milandro
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
Default

most of the spears from Kenia that I have owned and seen would have no problem to be used as a functional spear, their metal is forged not welded but the reality is that , aside from the millions of spears produced in the past for local consumption the same artisans work every day and pretty much in the same way to produce spears for the tourists.



see how the exact same spear identified as a Samburu spear is made ( around 1':00" you see the spear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZ6gXS14Uc


more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFttPhAYpn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM5z_9rPI_o
milandro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2024, 04:05 PM   #16
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B. View Post
Can we see a larger photo of the blade and shaft connection?
Can you tell if it is welded or forged?
To me this doesn't necessarily look like a tourist piece, especially because of the length, which is inconvenient for tourists.

Best regards
Peter
Hi Peter

When disassembled, the spear is disassembled into 3 parts. Each part is 35-40 cm, fits well in a suitcase. I brought swords, knives and spears from Tanzania and Kenya. The last time my suitcase weighed 24 kg.

Regards, Yuri
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2024, 07:32 PM   #17
Peter B.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 43
Default

Hello Yuri,

I was talking about the spear from the first post by Ed.
The longest part is 37" and, if I'm not wrong, this is nearly one meter.

Ok, I have also brought back weapons of this lenght, but it's not designed for the common tourist.

And by the way, the blade looks like a fine work, not like the usual poor quality tourist blades. (And also the recent Massai Blades from the same lower quality)

Best regards
Peter
Peter B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2024, 12:34 PM   #18
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
Hi Peter

When disassembled, the spear is disassembled into 3 parts. Each part is 35-40 cm, fits well in a suitcase. I brought swords, knives and spears from Tanzania and Kenya. The last time my suitcase weighed 24 kg.

Regards, Yuri
butt end is pointed and is 37".
The wood center piece is 18".
The Pointy piece is 27"

37"=94cm
244cm overall

Dunno. The butt end is more than twice your example in length. You could certainly carry it, it just seems very awkward.
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2024, 12:39 PM   #19
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B. View Post
Hello Ed,

can we see a larger photo of the blade and shaft connection?
Can you tell if it is welded or forged?
To me this doesn't necessarily look like a tourist piece, especially because of the length, which is inconvenient for tourists.

Best regards
Peter
It looks forged to me. Note that the margins of the head are not deformed. If welding level heat were applied the margins, being very thin, would have melted or been deformed.

Thoughts?
Attached Images
  
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th March 2024, 02:37 PM   #20
Peter B.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 43
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
It looks forged to me. Note that the margins of the head are not deformed. If welding level heat were applied the margins, being very thin, would have melted or been deformed.

Thoughts?
It looks as if the two parts were made individually until the end and then forged together.
The filing marks don't look like power tools either.
A slightly older age can therefore not be ruled out.
Are there any metalworking experts here?

By the way, based on the shape of the blade, I would suspect that it is of Turkana origin rather than Maasai or Samburu.

Last edited by Peter B.; 21st March 2024 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Spelling mistake
Peter B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2024, 10:14 PM   #21
Ed
Member
 
Ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 237
Default

It looked "older" to me. If artisans over there sell their goods to warriors and tourists then I don't see how a distinction can be made between the two. It is sorta like a Beretta 92 vs. an M9.

This is an interesting piece and is ensconced next to my Lion spear.
Ed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2024, 11:30 PM   #22
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
Default

I personally go by these spears and the so-called lion spears simply by the patination of the wooden part when it comes to age, the colour and shiny patina doesn't lie.
Here a somewhat blurry pic of the wooden part of a lion spear I have here at the moment.
Attached Images
 
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.