Seeking Help in Identifyling Keris

A. G. Maisey · 18th March 2024, 10:22 PM

More or less agreed.

Blade can be classified as a generic Mataram style, yes, it was 11 luk.

The cecekan or patra --- the hilt carvings --- seem to be generally agreed as residual demonic faces, this planar hilt style originated in the Islamic enclaves of the North Coast & were originally the prerogative of princes.

I am inclined to think that this keris was perhaps last worn in East Jawa, maybe along the coast.

milandro · 19th March 2024, 02:47 PM

I think this was coated with some black coating, perhaps, lacquer.

I have come across this a few times but not as " bad " as this one before. If the kris were mine I would certainly attempt to clean and subsequently I would have it stained.

The cleaning may involve more or less drastic methods which won't damage the blade. But may damage the date, in red, so, depending on how important , for you, that is.

one MAY use a chemical to strip the lacquer. That shouldn't damage the blade , provided you don't leave the paint stripper too long.

If it were mine , I would not care of the date and would , first of all, try to boil the blade in salty water and then after 30 or so minutes, start using a brush with hard plastic bristles to remove the black paint.

The paint is certainly not a new very hard to remove epoxy paint and will probably respond very well to the boiling. Boiling cannot damage blade . Of courser the Hilt can and should be removed.

G. Mansfield · 20th March 2024, 09:15 PM

Thanks everyone for your information and input. I have researched more on some of the terminology regarding parts of a keris and blade, along with this style of this blade and hilt. I now have a slightly better understanding and a greater appreciation for his keris which had little attention given to it up until now.

After a closer look…the selut / mendak are not silver but a white metal, probably a mixture of a different alloys. They are two separate pieces but the “mendak” is attached through bent taps clamping the “selut” with it. The wood hilt is lined with a very old brittle fabric, possibly used as a spacer. The blade is also in fact covered with a black coating which I had not noticed before, very nice eye! This is confirmed by rubbing the bottom of the ganja and finding the black residue flake off. I am assuming it was applied by the museum to prevent further deterioration of the blade, as it seems quite old and somewhat brittle in areas. I have not decided if I am going to restore the blade or leave it be as I have never done so before. After boiling the blade as stated, what is recommended for the stain? I want to make sure that the blade stays stable and does not lose its integrity and to see if any pattern is present and to preserve it if I choose to do so.

kai · 20th March 2024, 09:37 PM

Quote:

try to boil the blade in salty water and then after 30 or so minutes, start using a brush with hard plastic bristles to remove the black paint.

No, salt will be very tough to remove completely from keris blades which can be quite porous: Any chloride traces left will greatly foster rust development!

There is a reason why marine archeology of metals employs very specialized preservation methods that literally take years to complete!

Regards,
Kai

milandro · 20th March 2024, 10:27 PM

the paint , assuming that that is paint, can be removed also from hot water alone. Maybe it is peech and hot water would work too.

There is also a chance that it won't come off and then other methods would be needed.

The hilt has to be removed before you do anything.

You say : " The wood hilt is lined with a very old brittle fabric, possibly used as a spacer..."

The majority of krises with the exception of Moro Krises , use hilts that are friction mounted and use all sorts of materials between the pesi or peksy ( the tang) and the hilt.

You MAY want to clean and stain the blade after removing whatever coats it. Staining is traditionally done by the use of Warangan.

There are many threads about staining a keris blade.

Sajen · 20th March 2024, 10:58 PM

I like the jerejan!

A. G. Maisey · 21st March 2024, 01:57 AM

It might be best to stick with "pesi", this is Javanese & it means specifically the tang of a keris.

There is no word "peksy", but "peksi" is Kromo, & it means "bird", the Ngoko is "manuk".

The word "pesi" is also a variant spelling of "peksi", this variation has been caused by the pronunciation of the "k" as a glottal stop, which can make it unheard in speech.

David · 21st March 2024, 06:56 PM

Geoffrey, as mentioned, there are numerous threads in our archives that cover the cleaning of keris. Here in one that is pretty good, but you may want to search our archives for "keris maintenance" or "keris cleaning" or "warangan" and read them all if you plan to embark on cleaning up this keris. If is were mine i would definitely clean it and attempt to restore the hilt somewhat, as it seems like it also needs a bit of attention and it is a somewhat rare style that should be maintained.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23934
The first thing i would do is remove that hilt completely and try to rejuvenate it a bit with a good wood oil. As mentioned, keris hilts are pressure fit with cloth or string. You can remove that old tattered material and any that you find caught up in the pesi hole of the hilt and replace it with a new strip of cloth when the time comes to place the hilt back on.
I would reiterate Kai's advice to NOT boil the blade in saltwater. I don't think the salt is a very good idea. Some varnishes can be difficult to remove. Given the black colour this seems more like some sort of paint, but who knows what goes through the crazed minds of some of these museum folk when it comes to keris preservation. LOL!

If this was mine i would simply lose the current hilt cup and spacer, especially since it is not silver. I am not even going to continue calling it a "selut/mendhak" even in quotation marks because it is neither of those. These type of fittings do not seem culturally appropriate to this keris. It is not too difficult to obtain a decent mendhak for a reasonable price. They pop up fairly often on ebay or you can google "mendak" and find many for sale on the internet. I'm even willing to bet that if you put up an in-search-of on our Swap page that someone would come to your aid.
What you are looking for to match to this hilt is something similar to the examples i have attached here. There are lots of variations and some styles will be more appropriate than others dependant upon the origin of this keris. Alan has suggested that your keris may have a East Jawa origin. There are a few of that variety in the last grouping which one of Alan's photographs, so perhaps he could guide you to a correct style for this ensemble.

20th March 2024, 09:15 PM	#3
G. Mansfield Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Posts: 78	Thanks everyone for your information and input. I have researched more on some of the terminology regarding parts of a keris and blade, along with this style of this blade and hilt. I now have a slightly better understanding and a greater appreciation for his keris which had little attention given to it up until now. After a closer look…the selut / mendak are not silver but a white metal, probably a mixture of a different alloys. They are two separate pieces but the “mendak” is attached through bent taps clamping the “selut” with it. The wood hilt is lined with a very old brittle fabric, possibly used as a spacer. The blade is also in fact covered with a black coating which I had not noticed before, very nice eye! This is confirmed by rubbing the bottom of the ganja and finding the black residue flake off. I am assuming it was applied by the museum to prevent further deterioration of the blade, as it seems quite old and somewhat brittle in areas. I have not decided if I am going to restore the blade or leave it be as I have never done so before. After boiling the blade as stated, what is recommended for the stain? I want to make sure that the blade stays stable and does not lose its integrity and to see if any pattern is present and to preserve it if I choose to do so. Attached Images

21st March 2024, 06:56 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,051	Geoffrey, as mentioned, there are numerous threads in our archives that cover the cleaning of keris. Here in one that is pretty good, but you may want to search our archives for "keris maintenance" or "keris cleaning" or "warangan" and read them all if you plan to embark on cleaning up this keris. If is were mine i would definitely clean it and attempt to restore the hilt somewhat, as it seems like it also needs a bit of attention and it is a somewhat rare style that should be maintained. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23934 The first thing i would do is remove that hilt completely and try to rejuvenate it a bit with a good wood oil. As mentioned, keris hilts are pressure fit with cloth or string. You can remove that old tattered material and any that you find caught up in the pesi hole of the hilt and replace it with a new strip of cloth when the time comes to place the hilt back on. I would reiterate Kai's advice to NOT boil the blade in saltwater. I don't think the salt is a very good idea. Some varnishes can be difficult to remove. Given the black colour this seems more like some sort of paint, but who knows what goes through the crazed minds of some of these museum folk when it comes to keris preservation. LOL! If this was mine i would simply lose the current hilt cup and spacer, especially since it is not silver. I am not even going to continue calling it a "selut/mendhak" even in quotation marks because it is neither of those. These type of fittings do not seem culturally appropriate to this keris. It is not too difficult to obtain a decent mendhak for a reasonable price. They pop up fairly often on ebay or you can google "mendak" and find many for sale on the internet. I'm even willing to bet that if you put up an in-search-of on our Swap page that someone would come to your aid. What you are looking for to match to this hilt is something similar to the examples i have attached here. There are lots of variations and some styles will be more appropriate than others dependant upon the origin of this keris. Alan has suggested that your keris may have a East Jawa origin. There are a few of that variety in the last grouping which one of Alan's photographs, so perhaps he could guide you to a correct style for this ensemble. Attached Images

18th March 2024, 10:22 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,752	More or less agreed. Blade can be classified as a generic Mataram style, yes, it was 11 luk. The cecekan or patra --- the hilt carvings --- seem to be generally agreed as residual demonic faces, this planar hilt style originated in the Islamic enclaves of the North Coast & were originally the prerogative of princes. I am inclined to think that this keris was perhaps last worn in East Jawa, maybe along the coast.

19th March 2024, 02:47 PM	#2
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 424	I think this was coated with some black coating, perhaps, lacquer. I have come across this a few times but not as " bad " as this one before. If the kris were mine I would certainly attempt to clean and subsequently I would have it stained. The cleaning may involve more or less drastic methods which won't damage the blade. But may damage the date, in red, so, depending on how important , for you, that is. one MAY use a chemical to strip the lacquer. That shouldn't damage the blade , provided you don't leave the paint stripper too long. If it were mine , I would not care of the date and would , first of all, try to boil the blade in salty water and then after 30 or so minutes, start using a brush with hard plastic bristles to remove the black paint. The paint is certainly not a new very hard to remove epoxy paint and will probably respond very well to the boiling. Boiling cannot damage blade . Of courser the Hilt can and should be removed.

20th March 2024, 10:27 PM	#5
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 424	the paint , assuming that that is paint, can be removed also from hot water alone. Maybe it is peech and hot water would work too. There is also a chance that it won't come off and then other methods would be needed. The hilt has to be removed before you do anything. You say : " The wood hilt is lined with a very old brittle fabric, possibly used as a spacer..." The majority of krises with the exception of Moro Krises , use hilts that are friction mounted and use all sorts of materials between the pesi or peksy ( the tang) and the hilt. You MAY want to clean and stain the blade after removing whatever coats it. Staining is traditionally done by the use of Warangan. There are many threads about staining a keris blade.

20th March 2024, 10:58 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,597	I like the jerejan!

21st March 2024, 01:57 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,752	It might be best to stick with "pesi", this is Javanese & it means specifically the tang of a keris. There is no word "peksy", but "peksi" is Kromo, & it means "bird", the Ngoko is "manuk". The word "pesi" is also a variant spelling of "peksi", this variation has been caused by the pronunciation of the "k" as a glottal stop, which can make it unheard in speech.