Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th February 2024, 05:46 PM   #1
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Question Mandau for identification

This is the first mandau in my collection, unfortunately the scabbard is missing.

Total length – 710 mm, blade length – 545 mm, blade thickness at the handle – 9 mm, weight – 672 g

Any information or comments regarding age, type, tribe, etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
            
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd March 2024, 12:38 AM   #2
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Post

That's a tough one, Yuri!

The blade seems to have good age and needs some TLC; the later attached chain was probably for hanging the piece on a wall?

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd March 2024, 03:25 PM   #3
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai View Post
That's a tough one, Yuri!

The blade seems to have good age and needs some TLC; the later attached chain was probably for hanging the piece on a wall?

Regards,
Kai
Thanks Kai

I’m slowly putting the blade in order; when I’m finished, I’ll post a photo. I don’t know for what purpose the chain was attached, perhaps it was some kind of whim of the previous owner.

Regards, Yuri
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th March 2024, 04:11 PM   #4
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

I cleaned the blade of dirt (without fanaticism), I will not carry out a deeper cleaning. After cleaning, a notch appeared on the butt of the blade.

The plane of the blade, concave on the left side and slightly convex on the right, is made for a right-handed person.

In my opinion, the item is quite old, I can’t determine it more precisely, my knowledge is not enough.
Attached Images
            
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2024, 08:41 PM   #5
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Post

Hello Yuri,

The blade is coming out nicely! Seems good quality to me.

I don't see much wear and this makes estimating age hard. The Borneo crowd tends to be really conservative with age estimates - let's see who is also willing to chime in.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2024, 09:19 PM   #6
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Hello Kai

Thanks for the comment.

Yes, the blade is of good quality and very well made. There is not much wear, perhaps it was a family heirloom and was kept at home.

Regards, Yuri
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2024, 03:54 AM   #7
naturalist
Member
 
naturalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 64
Default

IMHO, most likely from East Kalimantan.. Kenyah complex presumably
naturalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st April 2024, 08:00 PM   #8
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by naturalist View Post
IMHO, most likely from East Kalimantan.. Kenyah complex presumably
Thank you very much naturalist for the information.
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2024, 09:08 PM   #9
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default Mandau-2

Mandau-2 arrived in a sheath from the seller Mandau-1, unfortunately, the nju knife is missing.

Total length – 560 mm, blade length – 410 mm, blade thickness at the handle – 5 mm, weight – 337 g

The new sword is significantly smaller in size and weight than the Mandau-1. Steel on the blade, forging and processing of lower quality.

The handle may have been made by Kenya.

Comments are welcome.

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
            
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th April 2024, 09:21 PM   #10
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Sheath
Attached Images
      
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2024, 01:31 AM   #11
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,882
Default

I am not expert in this field, however, using Sellato as my reference I believe the hilt can be attributed to Kenyah origin.
A. G. Maisey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2024, 09:42 AM   #12
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
I am not expert in this field, however, using Sellato as my reference I believe the hilt can be attributed to Kenyah origin.
Thank you A. G. Maisey
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2024, 01:48 AM   #13
naturalist
Member
 
naturalist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 64
Default

There is a place in East Kalimantan, in around Samarinda where many people are working to make "mandau" for tourists.
Many are from Java. They are not really follow the each tribes identity that is reflected in the carving on the hilt and sheath. They just do what look likes Dayak's carving style.

I am no expert but i have been wandering around in Borneo in the last 20 years, been in the remote areas from West to East Kalimantan for ecological-anthropological research and environmental programs. For me the second mandau bit off, it seems the carving on the hilt is different origin from the carving on the sheath.
naturalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2024, 07:10 PM   #14
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
I am not expert in this field, however, using Sellato as my reference I believe the hilt can be attributed to Kenyah origin.
For me the second mandau bit off, it seems the carving on the hilt is different origin from the carving on the sheath.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, naturalist, for the information

I also had doubts about the scabbard, especially since it is much larger in size than the sword. After I carefully examined the two mandau, I realized that the seller had inserted the mandau-2 into the sheath of the mandau-1 in order to make more profit.

I sheathed the Mandau-1, the color and hair design matched 100%, here is the result:
Attached Images
  
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2024, 10:12 PM   #15
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Who has information, tell me what could be in this place? d 15 mm

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
 
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2024, 11:17 PM   #16
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pertinax View Post
what could be in this place?
Usually a coin, Yuri

Regards,
Kai

Last edited by kai; 9th April 2024 at 11:30 PM.
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2024, 08:39 AM   #17
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai View Post
Usually a coin, Yuri

Regards,
Kai
Thank you kai

What kind of coins were usually inserted by local or Dutch ones?

Regards, Yuri
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2024, 09:00 AM   #18
Pendita65
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 99
Default

Hello Yuri,

i checked the Dutch coins from the nineteenth century and the only one that fits 15 mm is a Dubbeltje (10 cents) they where made in silver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbeltje

I also checked the coin sizes from the VOC but they where larger and even the coins from Indonesia during the Dutch era see the picture here it is 1/10 of a Guilder.

Maybe this might be a clue.

Regards, Martin
Pendita65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2024, 09:04 AM   #19
Pendita65
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 99
Default

Here is the photograph of a dubbeltje from the Dutch in Indonesia. this coin is 15 mm in size
Attached Images
 
Pendita65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2024, 10:10 AM   #20
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendita65 View Post
Here is the photograph of a dubbeltje from the Dutch in Indonesia. this coin is 15 mm in size
Thanks, Martin, for very valuable information.

Regards, Yuri
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2024, 03:03 PM   #21
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,115
Default

These were not always Dutch coins. While i am not sure of the exact origins of this one it is also 15mm. Maybe someone here can identify this coin.
Attached Images
  
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2024, 05:13 PM   #22
Pertinax
Member
 
Pertinax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
These were not always Dutch coins. While i am not sure of the exact origins of this one it is also 15mm. Maybe someone here can identify this coin.
Hi David

This is the reverse of the coin -Netherlands India 1/10 guilder

Regards, Yuri
Attached Images
 
Pertinax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th April 2024, 08:43 PM   #23
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,115
Default

Excellent Yuri, thank you! I had no idea. Looks like a dead ringer. Dutch it is then.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.