|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
9th February 2024, 06:38 AM | #1 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
|
An unusual African knife was a big surprise at auction
As part of a newly found interest in African knives, I found an interesting looking knife on an international auction site. The style was unfamiliar to me, and I did some research on the African Weapons web site and concluded it looked most like an Ingessana knife from the Sudan. The auctioneer's estimate was 20–40 GBP. I thought it sounded like worth taking a chance on getting it at that price, and duly bid 40 GBP thinking that should be enough.
Imagine my surprise when it came up and the bids just came rolling in. My bid was left way, way in the dust. The hammer price alone was nearly 20 times the auctioneer's top estimate (not to mention the additional expense of a buyer's premium and shipping)! Quite a boilover. My question to the African arms collectors here is, what the heck is this thing and why did it attract so much attention? . |
9th February 2024, 06:50 AM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
|
Perhaps the handle is Rhino horn. Still a silly high price to my mind. One will be stuck with it being worthless in a international market.
Also no scabbard so in reality just another African blade and not that remarkable. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 9th February 2024 at 07:02 AM. |
9th February 2024, 07:39 AM | #3 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
|
Hi Tim, not sure what the hilt material might be. I had thought it was wood. The hilt seems to be in two pieces. As you say, a rather modest piece that several people pursued energetically.
Last edited by Ian; 10th February 2024 at 03:32 AM. |
9th February 2024, 10:42 AM | #4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
|
Hi Ian ,
I am not sure what it is however I now think it is not Rhino. Wood or bovine horn. I am starting to think it is even not that old, rather heavy file marks and no patina or attempts at a fine surface. Surely Rhino horn is prestige material and I would expect to see that in the finish. The blade does not look particularly old. Might be one of those occasions when bidding gets out of control. |
9th February 2024, 10:57 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 493
|
The blade reminds me of the ones you see on some of the Tebu swords and daggers.
|
9th February 2024, 02:41 PM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,806
|
The blades are very similar and the form matches to some degree but I have a strong feeling that I have seen one before and was labeled Sudan however that is a huge area and could depend on what is included in Sudan. I have been searching all the information on African arms I have and not found anything to confirm that feeling.
|
9th February 2024, 04:04 PM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 82
|
Hi Ian,
The item in discussion is a Sudanese arm dagger or more appropriately a short sword worn on the arm. I do not know of the actual term as they are some of the rarer types of weaponry from Sudan. Historically they have been found in the Darfur and Kordofan regions of the Sudan along the Sahel beltway. I am still unsure what ethnic group they were used by but it could be the Fur, Baggaras, Zaghawa, or other Arabs in the Region. There may be a strong association with Chad as well due to the trans Sahel trade routes in realation to the Tebu blades. Many examples are found in museum collections while others seem to circulate with collectors every so often, but they are not common. Most look to date from early colonial periods of German, French, Belgian and British exploration to the region from the 1870s - 1890s. Wilhelm Junker has one in his travels in Africa 1875 – 1886 attributed Darfur and Kordofan (Photo Attached.) Another passed through the former Oldman collection. The blade itself is closely related to Tebu blades as noted by Werecow. They are of spearpoint form with usually triangular and zig-zag incisions. The hilt is in fact a fine horn. The hilt and pommel shape seems to correlate with crescent shaped hilts that can be found in Cameroon to Eritrea on the pommels with these having a spike which is sometimes broken or missing. The sheath would have been presumably crocodile, with tooled leather and a solid leather arm band. There are also similar arm daggers of the type without the crescent shaped pommel, more in the form of Sudanese arm daggers made by I think the Fur. ( I will attach photos from my collection for comparison.) Tim, the price is not out of reason, as these are quite rare and in demand with African collectors, and with clearly a unique hilt shape. It’s a shame it is missing its sheath. Ian can you send me the original link through PM? Geoffrey |
9th February 2024, 05:32 PM | #8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: City by the Black Sea
Posts: 156
|
Similar to this one dagger with Thuluth Inscriptions. Fur, Sudan
https://ertribal.com/index.php/triba...riptions-sudan |
9th February 2024, 06:37 PM | #9 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
|
Geoffrey has done a great job explaining the potential interest in these short swords based on their rarity. Still, my guess is that the top bidders were after the material in the hilt.
|
10th February 2024, 12:46 AM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 16
|
That’s such a shame if true. I don’t know how someone can take a weapon that someone made and just take it apart for scraps
|
10th February 2024, 03:27 AM | #11 |
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 4,194
|
Geoffrey, thank you for those helpful comments. I have sent you the auction information via PM.
Geoffrey and TVV, what do you think the hilt material is? It has a strong "grain" to it, unlike rhino horn I have seen before. Even if it's wood, it is an attractive material. Werecow, thanks for raising the Tebu. I had encountered somewhat similar swords from that group in my research. I thought several swords of the Ingessana of Sudan were perhaps a little closer to the original post. This has been a very helpful and informative series of responses. Thanks to all who have posted so far. Further ideas are much appreciated. |
10th February 2024, 05:32 AM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,620
|
The hilt is rhino horn. As far as taking artefacts apart in order to recycle some of the materials used in them, it is something that has occurred throughout human history, and is not unique to weapons. As collectors, we assign a special value to complete objects, and believe in historical preservation, but for someone who needs to make a living, the melt value of precious metals or the value per gram of an organic object used in traditional medicine is all that matters. We can't know for sure who won the auction and what this person will do with the sword, but it is up to us as collectors to acquire and preserve these items, not up to others to share the same values as ours.
|
10th February 2024, 04:57 PM | #13 |
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
|
And that's why I firmly believe that this dagger was acquired by a collector....
|
11th February 2024, 02:53 PM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
|
|
|