Another Surakarta Keris

David · 9th January 2024, 04:42 PM

This is, of course, a completely different dhapur, but i am adding it here for another example of a modern era keris with pamor wengkon. If i am not mistaken i believe this would qualify as wengkon isen as it is wengkon with another pamor contained within its border. I believe this has a fairly well controlled wengkon.

A. G. Maisey · 9th January 2024, 07:27 PM

I have not heard of pamor wengkon isen.

It does not appear in EK, nor in KJ. In fact in KJ, HH calls pamor wengkon "pamor tepen", another term I have not heard used in Solo.

The word "isen" comes from "isi" = "contents", "isen" is normally used as "isen-isen", again meaning "contents", so "wengkon isen" is actually a description, not a name.

HH's name for pamor wengkon, ie, "pamor tepen", I find to be very peculiar, because "tepen" means "a decorative border".

In Solo, I have only ever heard pamor wengkon referred to as "pamor wengkon", and when another pamor is found within the border of the wengkon it would be referred to by its name, in the case of David's fine example, this would be "pamor wengkon and kuta mesir", again, a description, not a name, but a description that names the two component pamor motifs.

Keris terminology varies all over the place, broadly, it is not fixed, and I personally believe a lot of keris terminology these days has been made up to cover lack of knowledge or to satisfy the needs of a person or group.

David · 9th January 2024, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Keris terminology varies all over the place, broadly, it is not fixed, and I personally believe a lot of keris terminology these days has been made up to cover lack of knowledge or to satisfy the needs of a person or group.

Thanks Alan, i am sure quite a lot of names have been made up in the keris world just in the past few years. I had heard the term "wengkon isen" elsewhere before this thread and it does seem to be a fair descriptor for a pamor held within a wengkon pamor. But i am just as pleased to refer to my keris as "wengkon kuta mesir" as well, which would be more specific. I used the term here mostly because JustYS had asked about above.

A. G. Maisey · 9th January 2024, 11:41 PM

David, when I saw it used as a name, & not as a descriptor, I googled it, and I got a lot of hits, so, within the collector community it now apparently in common usage.

My point in commenting at all was just to reiterate what I've been saying for years:- there really is no "standard" terminology, yeah, there can be terms that are overall, pretty generally used, but to say one thing is right & another thing is wrong, is now, & probably always has been not really in synch with the real world.

HH with his "pamor tepen" points this up too. To my mind it is absolutely incorrect, it is not something I've ever heard used for pamor wengkon, & when we consider the Javanese meaning, it is just out & out wrong. But HH was real big in the collector world, so who am I to argue with him? He might have made it up himself, or he might have heard it somewhere or other & liked it.

I reckon we need to stay fairly open minded where keris terminology is concerned.

Gavin Nugent · 9th January 2024, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

This is, of course, a completely different dhapur, .

.
Personally I'm not a fan of the overall profiles at the base and gonjo, I do really like the contrast and pamor within this blade though, very smart looking.
Appreciation for what the artist has done with the metals and finish is deserved.

It looks somewhat like a long flowing Wayang profile seen within the top layers of spiral turns in that central block. Something one may consider auspicious.

JustYS · 10th January 2024, 09:34 AM

Thank you Jagabuwana.

Thank you for your answer Alan, it seems that my Dhapur copy is incomplete.

In Luk 7 section I only have: Sempana Panjul, Carubuk, Sempana Bungkem, Sepokal (A), Murda Malela, Kidang Soka, Jaran Guyang, Panji Semedi and Naga Keras.

What a gorgeous Keris David.

Gustav · 10th January 2024, 10:28 AM

Regarding Pamor Wengkon:

Winter, who came from an old family of translators at the Keraton of Surakarta, uses the name Pamor Wengkon in his 1871 book, apparently for a true Pamor Wengkon.

Groneman uses the name Pamor Tepi for a Mlumah border, inside of which there is contained another Pamor. He doesn't mention a "pure" Wengkon. Groneman's information comes mainly from Yogyakarta.

Jasper&Mas Pirngadie mention Pamor Tepi exactly the same way as Groneman, they possibly took it over from Groneman, as they did with Winter's Wengkon, mentioning the source.

Actually HH in his book uses both terms, Tepen and Wengkon.

The possibilities are

1) name Pamor Tepi was used only for Wengkon containing another Pamor within its border, perhaps only in Yogayakarta;

2) name Pamor Tepi was used in Yogyakarta, Pamor Wengkon in Surakarta for the same Pamor, including "pure" Pamor Wengkon.

Gustav · 10th January 2024, 02:54 PM

And in Gronemans article in van Duuren's redaction, p.81, after excerpt with Winter's Pamor designs, which include Wengkon, there is a mention of Tepen:

"In an enumeration of seventeen pamor motifs from a collection of manuscripts owned by Resident Couperus, I found another four new names:

(...)
2. tepen, possibly an edge pamor without anything else.

That would mean, Pamor Tepen likely is an old Yogyakarta name for Pamor Wengkon (Couperus was Resident in Yogyakarta).

A. G. Maisey · 11th January 2024, 11:55 AM

I have always found it useful to know what a word actually means when I try to understand something.

The words that Gustav has given us are worth a second look.

The word "tepi" means the edge, border or boundary of something --- a pretty good restaurant in Peliatan in Bali called "Bebek Tepi Sawah" = "Duck at the edge of the Rice field".

The word "tepen" comes from "tepi" and it means to have decorative edging. It is not a noun.

HH does use both "wengkon" & "tepen" , he does not list either wengkon or tepen in his list of pamors, but underneath a picture of wengkon pamor that he names as pamor "Tepen" & then brackets (wengkon) after it. The way this presented on P.201 of KJ it seems to me that he prefers "Tepen" but refers to "wengkon" so others will know what he is writing about.

But we need to look closely at the word "wengkon".

The word "wengkon" comes from "wengku", this word has two ways of being understood, firstly as a frame, ie, "picture frame", & secondly as "power".

The word "wewengkon" = "a large territory of power", by "large", we are thinking in terms of a region or province, for example "Daerah Istimewa Yogyakarta" = "The Special Region of Jogjakarta"

In Balinese the word "wengkon" is a contraction of "wengku-an", & this means "a region or province".

In Old Javanese we find "wengkon" as "wengka (wengko)", meaning "a district or region", the word probably comes into Old Javanese from Kawi, perhaps originally taken from Sanskrit.

"Tepi" also occurs in Old Javanese, but this word appears not to have acquired the derivative of "tepen" at that point in time.

In Surakarta the Pamor Wengkon is used in keris & tombak that are/were given to a newly appointed Bupati, by the Susuhunan. The purpose of the gift is/was to serve as a constant reminder to the Bupati that he has power (& responsibility) for the province or region that he has been appointed to govern.

When we understand the meanings of the word "wengkon" it is not at all difficult to understand the reason for its name:- it is a physical representation of both the province that the Bupati has responsibility for, & his power over it.

The keris is regarded as royal art, thus if the pamor wengkon is the name of this pamor in the Karaton Surakarta, then in Surakarta this must be accepted as the correct name for the pamor.

However, as I have mentioned in other places, keris terminology is not fixed, so if somebody else wants to use a descriptor as a name for the pamor motif, then of course, they may, but by doing so they ignore the traditional understandings of the name "Pamor Wengkon".

The way these understandings were explained to me was that the wengkon itself represented the protection of the Bupati, & the area within the wengkon represented his province & people whom he must protect.

Sorry for being so long winded, but there are lots & lots of misunderstandings associated with the keris, and regrettably they all require about as many words --- or more --- than I have used here, to be clarified.

David · 11th January 2024, 03:34 PM

No need to apologize for a long explanation. You have explained the meaning of pamor wengkon to me before and this explanation of the meaning of the word "wengkon" make a lot of sense to me. So i am sure i will continue to use that name as it ties it into the purpose for the use of this particular pamor.
I agree that names are constantly changing in keris terminology and that often it is at the cost of deeper meanings.

9th January 2024, 04:42 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,053	This is, of course, a completely different dhapur, but i am adding it here for another example of a modern era keris with pamor wengkon. If i am not mistaken i believe this would qualify as wengkon isen as it is wengkon with another pamor contained within its border. I believe this has a fairly well controlled wengkon. Attached Images

9th January 2024, 07:27 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	I have not heard of pamor wengkon isen. It does not appear in EK, nor in KJ. In fact in KJ, HH calls pamor wengkon "pamor tepen", another term I have not heard used in Solo. The word "isen" comes from "isi" = "contents", "isen" is normally used as "isen-isen", again meaning "contents", so "wengkon isen" is actually a description, not a name. HH's name for pamor wengkon, ie, "pamor tepen", I find to be very peculiar, because "tepen" means "a decorative border". In Solo, I have only ever heard pamor wengkon referred to as "pamor wengkon", and when another pamor is found within the border of the wengkon it would be referred to by its name, in the case of David's fine example, this would be "pamor wengkon and kuta mesir", again, a description, not a name, but a description that names the two component pamor motifs. Keris terminology varies all over the place, broadly, it is not fixed, and I personally believe a lot of keris terminology these days has been made up to cover lack of knowledge or to satisfy the needs of a person or group.

9th January 2024, 11:41 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	David, when I saw it used as a name, & not as a descriptor, I googled it, and I got a lot of hits, so, within the collector community it now apparently in common usage. My point in commenting at all was just to reiterate what I've been saying for years:- there really is no "standard" terminology, yeah, there can be terms that are overall, pretty generally used, but to say one thing is right & another thing is wrong, is now, & probably always has been not really in synch with the real world. HH with his "pamor tepen" points this up too. To my mind it is absolutely incorrect, it is not something I've ever heard used for pamor wengkon, & when we consider the Javanese meaning, it is just out & out wrong. But HH was real big in the collector world, so who am I to argue with him? He might have made it up himself, or he might have heard it somewhere or other & liked it. I reckon we need to stay fairly open minded where keris terminology is concerned.

10th January 2024, 09:34 AM	#6
JustYS Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 129	Thank you Jagabuwana. Thank you for your answer Alan, it seems that my Dhapur copy is incomplete. In Luk 7 section I only have: Sempana Panjul, Carubuk, Sempana Bungkem, Sepokal (A), Murda Malela, Kidang Soka, Jaran Guyang, Panji Semedi and Naga Keras. What a gorgeous Keris David.

10th January 2024, 10:28 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	Regarding Pamor Wengkon: Winter, who came from an old family of translators at the Keraton of Surakarta, uses the name Pamor Wengkon in his 1871 book, apparently for a true Pamor Wengkon. Groneman uses the name Pamor Tepi for a Mlumah border, inside of which there is contained another Pamor. He doesn't mention a "pure" Wengkon. Groneman's information comes mainly from Yogyakarta. Jasper&Mas Pirngadie mention Pamor Tepi exactly the same way as Groneman, they possibly took it over from Groneman, as they did with Winter's Wengkon, mentioning the source. Actually HH in his book uses both terms, Tepen and Wengkon. The possibilities are 1) name Pamor Tepi was used only for Wengkon containing another Pamor within its border, perhaps only in Yogayakarta; 2) name Pamor Tepi was used in Yogyakarta, Pamor Wengkon in Surakarta for the same Pamor, including "pure" Pamor Wengkon.

10th January 2024, 02:54 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,208	And in Gronemans article in van Duuren's redaction, p.81, after excerpt with Winter's Pamor designs, which include Wengkon, there is a mention of Tepen: "In an enumeration of seventeen pamor motifs from a collection of manuscripts owned by Resident Couperus, I found another four new names: (...) 2. tepen, possibly an edge pamor without anything else. That would mean, Pamor Tepen likely is an old Yogyakarta name for Pamor Wengkon (Couperus was Resident in Yogyakarta).

11th January 2024, 11:55 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,762	I have always found it useful to know what a word actually means when I try to understand something. The words that Gustav has given us are worth a second look. The word "tepi" means the edge, border or boundary of something --- a pretty good restaurant in Peliatan in Bali called "Bebek Tepi Sawah" = "Duck at the edge of the Rice field". The word "tepen" comes from "tepi" and it means to have decorative edging. It is not a noun. HH does use both "wengkon" & "tepen" , he does not list either wengkon or tepen in his list of pamors, but underneath a picture of wengkon pamor that he names as pamor "Tepen" & then brackets (wengkon) after it. The way this presented on P.201 of KJ it seems to me that he prefers "Tepen" but refers to "wengkon" so others will know what he is writing about. But we need to look closely at the word "wengkon". The word "wengkon" comes from "wengku", this word has two ways of being understood, firstly as a frame, ie, "picture frame", & secondly as "power". The word "wewengkon" = "a large territory of power", by "large", we are thinking in terms of a region or province, for example "Daerah Istimewa Yogyakarta" = "The Special Region of Jogjakarta" In Balinese the word "wengkon" is a contraction of "wengku-an", & this means "a region or province". In Old Javanese we find "wengkon" as "wengka (wengko)", meaning "a district or region", the word probably comes into Old Javanese from Kawi, perhaps originally taken from Sanskrit. "Tepi" also occurs in Old Javanese, but this word appears not to have acquired the derivative of "tepen" at that point in time. In Surakarta the Pamor Wengkon is used in keris & tombak that are/were given to a newly appointed Bupati, by the Susuhunan. The purpose of the gift is/was to serve as a constant reminder to the Bupati that he has power (& responsibility) for the province or region that he has been appointed to govern. When we understand the meanings of the word "wengkon" it is not at all difficult to understand the reason for its name:- it is a physical representation of both the province that the Bupati has responsibility for, & his power over it. The keris is regarded as royal art, thus if the pamor wengkon is the name of this pamor in the Karaton Surakarta, then in Surakarta this must be accepted as the correct name for the pamor. However, as I have mentioned in other places, keris terminology is not fixed, so if somebody else wants to use a descriptor as a name for the pamor motif, then of course, they may, but by doing so they ignore the traditional understandings of the name "Pamor Wengkon". The way these understandings were explained to me was that the wengkon itself represented the protection of the Bupati, & the area within the wengkon represented his province & people whom he must protect. Sorry for being so long winded, but there are lots & lots of misunderstandings associated with the keris, and regrettably they all require about as many words --- or more --- than I have used here, to be clarified.

11th January 2024, 03:34 PM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,053	No need to apologize for a long explanation. You have explained the meaning of pamor wengkon to me before and this explanation of the meaning of the word "wengkon" make a lot of sense to me. So i am sure i will continue to use that name as it ties it into the purpose for the use of this particular pamor. I agree that names are constantly changing in keris terminology and that often it is at the cost of deeper meanings.