1st January 2024, 12:05 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Lacaille Pistol
Hi all,
I'm looking for a bit more information on this percussion pistol. Firearms are generally outside my area of interest but this looked good quality and had no bidders so I decided to go for it. All I could find on the web was Jacques Lacaille, working in Blois, central France, 1775-1829. There are no other marks except the inscription on the barrel. Anyone have a full translation for that? There appears to be a word missing at the start. From the date, I assume it is a conversion from flintlock, would that be correct? There are some interesting features like the animal carved hammer head and the mouth of the barrel is slightly flared, you can just make that out in the pictures. The ramrod has a number 5 stamped on it. The barrel is rifled with grooves around the entire circumference which I found surprising for this era. Any comments welcome. Happy New Year everyone. |
1st January 2024, 12:35 PM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 669
|
Hello
It does not seem like a spark conversion, but is originally from percussion. What it may be is that a previous spark gun was used, threading a bombette or mascot to thread the chimney. The missing word may be the year of construction, but it would deserve a better photograph to appreciate it. The rifling of the barrel is known as "microrifling." Affectionately |
1st January 2024, 01:54 PM | #3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
Maybe it is a different Lacaille; even his son. By the way, you know these names on barrels are usually not those of gun makers but of suppliers, the so called fourbisseurs.
You should try hard to get a more clear picture of the inscription . Happy new year to you too. |
1st January 2024, 03:49 PM | #4 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Quote:
I'm afraid even under bright light and magnifying glass the first word (or date) is reduced to a few unconnected marks. The inscription reads : ...... Par Lacaille Ainé ŕ Blois as far as I can tell. Rifling goes back centuries but there is not much information on micro rifling. Does anyone have any knowledge about when it was popular in the 19th century? Last edited by CutlassCollector; 2nd January 2024 at 11:29 AM. Reason: spelling |
|
1st January 2024, 08:39 PM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 669
|
Hello
Microrifling was used in luxury weapons, mainly in France, by BOUTET, and at the end of the 18th century and part of the 19th century, by the Versailles manufacture. There are also some Italian regulation pistols, with the "crushed bullet" method. Affectionately |
2nd January 2024, 11:04 AM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,204
|
The complete signature on the barrel reads "Fourni par Lacaille......" It follows that Lacaille was not the manufacturer, but probably just the dealer who sold the pistol. As a gunsmith, he would most likely have inscribed his name on the lock plate - as was common practice.
One more word about hair pulls: They are by no means an invention of Boutet or only appeared towards the end of the 18th century. As early as 1550, the Augsburg gunsmith Augustin Kutter was cutting hairlines into barrels. |
2nd January 2024, 11:13 AM | #7 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Quote:
|
|
2nd January 2024, 11:27 AM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Quote:
Hello corrado and thanks for that - I was hoping that someone would have seen that inscription before. So now it reads. 'Provided by Lacaille the elder of Blois' Fernando, I did not know that about the fourbisseurs and you were right. It makes me think that the first word has been intentionally removed to imply the more famous Lacaille gunmaker. Which would be a strange sort of vandalism as it does seem like a quality pistol. |
|
2nd January 2024, 12:14 PM | #9 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
|
2nd January 2024, 12:37 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
|
2nd January 2024, 12:40 PM | #11 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
|
2nd January 2024, 01:25 PM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,204
|
Lacaille l'ainé was Lacaille, Michel Charles *1799 and working at Blois in 1847; he was the son of Lacaille, Michel-Leclerc. (l'ainé is the French word for "the first born").
|
2nd January 2024, 02:25 PM | #13 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
A prize for Udo, the best .
|
2nd January 2024, 03:17 PM | #14 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Quote:
Thank you, Udo, such good information! But that seems to indicate a connection with Lacaille as gunmakers rather than suppliers. Perhaps they were both? I am wondering if the lack of a makers name on the lock plate is an indication that it has been converted from flintlock to percussion. I don't know how to tell. Does the plate get replaced? The wood to metal fit around the lock is certainly not as good as the other side. |
|
2nd January 2024, 05:16 PM | #15 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,204
|
The arrow marks a place on the lock plate that looks as if the screw hole for the screw of the former battery spring was located there. This would prove that this is a former flintlock pistol that was converted to the percussion system. It would be conceivable that in this case the signature of the lock plate was removed after it had been softened.
|
2nd January 2024, 06:43 PM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 669
|
Regarding what Corrado says, which is a modification of the spark key, you cannot clearly see the plug of the threaded hole of the frizzen spring. Nor can it be seen where the hole in his spike would have been. A better photograph would be needed, and above all, of the inside of the key. In addition, the threaded hole in the frizzen would be missing, which would have to be seen. Additionally, if it is a spark modification, the method followed for placing the bomblet or mascot, for placing the chimney, should be seen on the barrel.
|
2nd January 2024, 06:47 PM | #17 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
You will also pardon me Udo, but i find it hard to process that this pistol has a converted system .
|
3rd January 2024, 07:07 AM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,204
|
|
3rd January 2024, 10:41 AM | #19 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scotland
Posts: 330
|
Hi Udo, now I understand and I have examined that area closely and there is no sign of a previous screw hole.
I think that my lack of knowledge in this area has hindered the discussion! but I have learnt a lot and added a beautiful pistol to my collection. So, gentlemen, thank you all for your interest and for sharing your knowledge. Regards, CC |
3rd January 2024, 10:55 AM | #20 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
.
|
|
|