8th December 2023, 08:43 PM | #1 | |
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Armenian yataghan
In the recurring discussions here of the Black Sea Yataghan/Laz Bishaq, a possible Armenian connection has been raised several times. Here is a deeply recurved Armernian sword that sold recently at auction which is reminiscent of the BSY. The pictures are from the auction. I hope someone here got it!
The auction description: Quote:
Last edited by Ian; 8th December 2023 at 08:57 PM. |
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9th December 2023, 03:22 AM | #2 |
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I agree Ian, I hope somebody here got it as well. As you know, the 'Black Sea Yataghan' 'discussions' were pretty drawn out, and I had been researching those since I first got one back in the mid 90s.
These are part of the genre that includes the so called Black Sea yataghan, years later found to be a Laz bichagi, from these people situated in various Transcaucasian and Anatolian regions. In the 1962 book by Gerhard Seifert , "Schwert Degen Sabel", one of the 'Black Sea Yataghans' was pictured and identified as a KURDISH ARMENIAN YATAGHAN. When I spoke with him, he told me he had been informed of that ID by his mentor (as he said) Holgar Jacobsen of Denmark, the author of "Origins of the Shashka" (1941), who had included these in his paper. In the paper, this form was shown with others in this group, in a plate from an obscure work by Count Jeno Vichy, of Hungary, on his travels in the Caucusus and Central Asia...titled "A Magyar Faj Vander Pa'Sa'" . In this the swords are termed 'kardok'. simply the Hungarian term for sword. Possibly this might explain the Armenian label? These varied types seem to have gotten around, and according to someone I knew in Tblisi, they were far from unknown in those areas as well. I dont think we ever got any kind of resolution on these types of swords with these odd cleft hilts, and this one with the radically curved blade is truly an anomaly...Ive seen them before but only one or two over many years |
9th December 2023, 05:12 AM | #3 |
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Excuse me the question, but which is the edged side in this yatagan ??
Can it be used in fight or just déco ? It don't look like a kopesh Or can both sides be sharpened ? Especially at the end on the blade/ the ''sickle'' part |
9th December 2023, 08:58 AM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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9th December 2023, 11:21 AM | #5 |
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Congratulations AvtoGaz! That's a very beautiful and unusual sword. More pictures are always welcome, especially for such an unusual piece.
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9th December 2023, 11:25 AM | #6 | |
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Quote:
I think this one is primarily decorative (but probably functional if the blade is sharp). |
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9th December 2023, 03:16 PM | #7 |
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This is an atavistic weapon intended as something prestigious and likely a votive element for ceremonial or traditional presence.
I have seen similar examples with this peaked pommel hilt instead of the horned or cleft types, and these dramatically parabolic blades are primarily embellishments, not pragmatically intended. This type seems related to ancient forms having to do with the Near East, and Egypt into the Bronze Age, which include the Egyptian 'khopesh' and the 'sapara' which is a related form attributed to peoples in the Near East regions. Naturally the appearance of these curious weapons from Anatolian, Transcaucasian and 'Armenian' regions are not 'to the letter' as far as the 'khopesh' and other 'sickle' type (for dramatic curve) swords from iconographic sources, as they are 'atavistic' interpretations. not intended as exact copies. |
9th December 2023, 06:43 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
I would like the see a picture of the edge around the center of percussion. In some ways this reminds me of some of the ceremonial knives in Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual in terms of practicality as a weapon. |
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