Trade axe/tomahawk NE America 18th c.

[C4RL]

Can I ask when you say the "Round poll camp axe" 1700~1800 is virtually identical to your example, what is different?

When I say carbon steel I understand that can be nearly anything, what I mean is your hatchet's steel looks quite refined & uniform, it doesn't look like wrought or a welded bit & it doesn't look particularly old. I suspect it's a single piece of hardenable steel which would make it more recent if that is the case.

The first image I posted shows three hatchets I picked up in Portugal, it's a very popular pattern there with many (possibly hundreds) of different stamps. I've seen many examples & yours looks identical to that style & in very good condition.
All these hatchets have round eyes, that isn't in the slightest bit rare amongst "slip fit" handles of many styles.

The initials look like they have been stamped using a cold chisel one line at a time, the sort of thing someone does to mark their initials.

Of course this is just my opinion, it could simply be coincidence that that these hatchet's look alike & I could be completely wrong, I'm no expert.
Could you post the reference "Round poll camp axe", I'd be interested to see it.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by C4RL

Can I ask when you say the "Round poll camp axe" 1700~1800 is virtually identical to your example, what is different?

When I say carbon steel I understand that can be nearly anything, what I mean is your hatchet's steel looks quite refined & uniform, it doesn't look like wrought or a welded bit & it doesn't look particularly old. I suspect it's a single piece of hardenable steel which would make it more recent if that is the case.

The first image I posted shows three hatchets I picked up in Portugal, it's a very popular pattern there with many (possibly hundreds) of different stamps. I've seen many examples & yours looks identical to that style & in very good condition.
All these hatchets have round eyes, that isn't in the slightest bit rare amongst "slip fit" handles of many styles.

The initials look like they have been stamped using a cold chisel one line at a time, the sort of thing someone does to mark their initials.

Of course this is just my opinion, it could simply be coincidence that that these hatchet's look alike & I could be completely wrong, I'm no expert.
Could you post the reference "Round poll camp axe", I'd be interested to see it.

I have gotten the Nuemann book (1973) to post the illustration, where the description is as I have previously noted. It is described as French, and of course southern France along with the Basque regions in north of Spain are included in the Biscayan sphere, which is the more common term describing items and people of these areas.

In the 18th and early 19th centuries, materials to colonial regions, later America and Mexico, came in the trade vessels, and included were barrels of these kinds of axe heads (or 'hatchets' if you will). As mentioned, these characteristic deep stamped marks (the clover in this case) seem to have been some sort of bale mark rather than to any maker or guild. While no documentation exists that would identify the probable users of specific of these marks, there does appear to be consistency in the manner and location of placement on the axe head.

When I say my example is 'virtually' identical to the 'round poll camp axe' shown in Neumann (1973), what I mean is that it is considered prudent not to make adamant assertions that will invariably be contested in the inevitable micro-examinations of others particularly 'experts'. As I noted in my OP, I am by no means any sort of authority on these, but I am intent in research and open to suggestions in proper identification as always. While you clearly have more experience in this field, I appreciate you noting that in these kinds of situations, there are always exceptions and no assessment is necessarily absolute.

With my use of the Neumann example, I have had the honor of personal discussions with him on the weaponry included in his venerable reference,
and while we did not discuss axes, his expertise overall on the arms we did focus on was entirely beyond reproach, I have never seen any weapon description from his book questioned, so I feel confident his identification is correct.
My example is again, virtually, identical...its dimensions in accord with the Nuemann example as the appearance....the date range 1700-1800.

So why would this 'old' form of camp axe (hatchet, whatever) still be produced in the 20th century. In analogy, a bit like Ford continuing to build Model A cars in the 1950s in the old way.
I am pretty familiar with patination on swords, which is more my field, and this condition is consistent (as far as I can see) with very old examples, especially into the 1700s. The nature of the patination depends on the conditions of the items placement and period in situ. If this had been in the ground, the interior corrosion would have forced outward leading to the surface of an orange effect. While one seam on the bottom of the head remains apparent, no others appear, suggesting some sort of finishing further concealed by darkening of age.

[Interested Party]

The difference in the angle of the edge relative to the eyes in these two axes is interesting. One would have to stand in a different location to fell a tree. Neumann's example might be better for a downward limbing application. In physical conflict this might be important, shrug.

[C4RL]

Firstly an appology as I've never seen such an example, the physical hatchet heads this side of the pond being the only things I have to go off, some being near identical in shape.

And what I've written I'm happy to be proved wrong. Is there any information on the manufacture method of the pictured axe head? Your head still looks more modern to me, or should I say it would be considered that if I picked it up here, in the firt image I posted the three axe heads I bought in a single visit to Portugal (I've seen the same in Spain) I'd consider them older than yours, again only my opinion & very likely methods developed differently in different areas.

The shape down the inner edge of your head suggests to me cast or more likely stamped factory production, something I only see on (relatively) more recent heads, I imagine it could have been ground to that shape but why, why the effort? I have some stamped or cast heads not in the same style as this head but show similar shapes around the edges.

Now, I know nothing of the U.S manufacturing techniques of the period 1700~1800. Would that period be production line or Blacksmith made ? Maybe I'm wrong.

[CutlassCollector]

Another thing that occurs to me about your axe, Jim, apart from the clean lines is its lack of use. Many swords may have survived in fairly pristine condition having not seen much action and been well cared for, but this is a common tool that would have been used almost every day. It's owner/owners over a hundred years+ would have used it for kindling wood, dressing game, digging latrine holes, homestead jobs, even, no doubt, used it as a hammer despite the round poll.

I know it's hard to tell from photographs but compared to the other examples, this axe does not looked lived in at all.

I believe most axes in the period that you are suggesting were made with wrap around iron with an inserted steel bit - the method is illustrated in Neumann.

As C4RL suggests - it could be dated if it was made of iron but unfortunately, unless anyone knows different, it is very hard to tell the difference between iron and steel without lab testing. Grinding produces different colour sparks but obviously that has limitations!

[C4RL]

Here's a brand new one, posted to show it is a (similar) Portuguese style, though not as common as it once was.
Note the round eye.
http://www.verdugo.pt/detalhe/pt/15

[Jim McDougall]

Most interesting arguments guys, and I very much appreciate the detailed explanations supporting your observations. As noted this is a learning exercise for me as I have never owned an axe or haft mounted weapon, but of course had some familiarity from various references.

I can truly see what is meant forensically with my example, and as noted, such a tool would most certainly have been used extensively and the resultant damage and wear would be seen clearly. The analogy on swords is well placed and of interest. Most swords, in actuality, saw little to no actual combat use despite the fact that obviously, they were intended for such use. Still, time takes its toll, and the weapon ages in varied degrees depending on the context that it is in.
Attached is a British dragoon sword c. 1750 which does not reflect any apparent use, but has aged notably in accord with old iron.

The axes of the type being discussed with my example, according to what I have read in the sources I have consulted, arrived in volume in America , often in barrels full. It stands to reason that of this volume of axe heads, they will all find different situations with those who acquire them, and likely the subsequent owners. While obviously, such tools would be readily used on the frontiers, but what if some, never really ended up in a working environment? I just visited the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, Nebraska, and the original trading post still exists there. In this, I believe there was a degree of merchandise which remained 'in stock' and many items remained in holding thus unused even after the closure of the post.

I cannot tell, but what if this axe, even of notable age, was never hafted nor used? Is this not possible? much in the way many swords and weapons simply never saw use. While clearly a tenuous position, it would seem we are considering all possibilities, so I would proffer this to add.
Not every weapon or tool experienced arduous use, some virtually none at all.

I also question the 'signs of use' observation.....in the photos of examples shown through the thread, which ones display this kind of 'damage' or reflect rugged use?

In post #3, CC suggests my axe because of the clean lines etc. does not seem entirely hand made (I agree) but more like something from the 'early nineteenth century' when blacksmiths were using water or steam driven power hammers'. This seems accord with the period I have been suggesting, early 19th c. to mid.

Also noted in#3, that a similar boarding axe is known with similar 'clover' but no further info.
An example of another similar is shown in Kaufman ("American Axes") with dual floral or radiating petal stamps and noted as excavated in N.Y. state....pretty much the region where the Neuman example I showed was from.

Keith (urbanspaceman) also showed an excellent discourse from his outstandingly researched book on the Shotley Bridge sword blade works in England, and how the iron working skills from England had come to America in the 17th century, with that industry flourishing in Massachusetts and Rhode Island. It would seem as he suggests, that production of axe heads with remarkably 'clean' characteristics was quite possible in earlier periods in American locations. This also, in my view puts an axe head with characteristics seen in my example could quite possibly have been from the early 19th c. and perhaps earlier if the type of stamped markings are considered in date range late 18th into 19th c.