24th February 2023, 06:22 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
|
removing clear varnish from a old blade
I was wondering what is the general advice on removing varnish (why do people do this? ) from an old blade
Is there a product ( and how to apply) which would be safe enough as to protect patina and do not damage the blade (and visible layers) |
24th February 2023, 09:25 PM | #2 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
Quote:
It depends on the used varnish. You can try benzine (for lighters) which works well with shellac for example, acetone works by other varnish, by others turpentine. With all three liquids you can't harm the blade. By wood or other natural materials you have to try it carefully on a not visible place. I have done it many times, don't be afraid to harm the blade. What you do mean by patina? Dirt and rust is not patina. But some blades get over time a black surface, strictly speaking also rust, don't be removed by a cleaning like this, it will become a little bit more shiny maybe because you have washed away dirt and loose rust but it will stay black, I guess that you mean this by patina. Attached a close-up from a blade with such a black surface and was cleaned once from a varnish. Regards, Detlef |
|
24th February 2023, 09:44 PM | #3 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
|
thank you! I will try , kind regards Detlef much obliged
|
24th February 2023, 10:18 PM | #4 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 493
|
Quote:
|
|
25th February 2023, 12:06 AM | #5 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
Quote:
Regards, Detlef |
|
25th February 2023, 12:44 AM | #6 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 493
|
Alright, thanks for the pointers!
|
25th February 2023, 11:10 AM | #7 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
You're welcome! BTW, it's a nice Kabeala, nice grain to the wooden handle. Attached is my own, similar example.
Regards, Detlef |
25th February 2023, 12:01 PM | #8 | |
Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 717
|
Quote:
have a nice WE Gunar |
|
25th February 2023, 12:15 PM | #9 |
Member
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 717
|
in many collectors fields (like ancient coins, jewelry or other products from metal;either base metal or gold and silver of a lower degree; i.e. < 500 ) one does not clean the metal as is done with blank weapons by chemicals (other than vaseline, natural oils and the likes ) as it decreases the value considerably.
One lesson I learned when collecting blank weapons and a huge difference with regards to value and cleaning an item . Not talking about patina. Specially metal which is easily vulnerable to oxidation like iron or zinc. In that case, dirt is cleaned by using vaseline/ oil or wax and for protection transparent nailpolish or similar varnishes are used as they protect the metal and do not effect the value. Hence I think some use varnish as a kind of protection against oxidation... Last edited by gp; 26th February 2023 at 10:00 AM. |
25th February 2023, 03:12 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 493
|
|
25th February 2023, 03:17 PM | #11 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 259
|
I recently cleaned a Mandau, and it came out very nice, maybe it was varnished of some sort in the past. I have read that once a year ceremonialy the blade was coated with oils etc. likely that ritual was also for reasons to protect the blade
|
25th February 2023, 04:31 PM | #12 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
Quote:
It was shown before in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=kabeala Regards, Detlef |
|
25th February 2023, 04:45 PM | #13 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
A very good indicator of good age are always the small cracks in rotan bindings,
see the attached pictures from some of my items, just use a good magnifying glass! |
25th February 2023, 10:37 PM | #14 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,224
|
Hello Joe, where did you read this ?
|
25th February 2023, 10:44 PM | #15 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Leiden, NL
Posts: 493
|
Quote:
FWIW I don't expect my kabeala to be particularly old. Does the presence of varnish itself say anything about the likely (minimum) age range, or people still do that today? |
|
25th February 2023, 10:46 PM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 259
|
possibly on this forum, or one of a few other websites I checked out recently.
I am Shure I read about it. something along the lines of the same time every year, almost like a holiday everyone does it. think I also heard it mentioned on Youtube... and just today actually on another sword forum I read someone talk about the sword receiving the incense and oil treatment. |
25th February 2023, 10:51 PM | #17 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 259
|
"likely that ritual was also for reasons to protect the blade"
this I did not read or hear, this i am saying, maybe, like years upon year of dried oil could work as a laquer, I remember it was done to keep the spirits in the blade appeased maybe, something along the lines of need to keep the sword happy or it loses it magic power, apparently they point the swords at the ground before enactment fighting to nullify the magic. |
25th February 2023, 10:53 PM | #18 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,254
|
Hello Joe,
Sounds like people are mixing things up - some just confuse islands and stuff... And the quenching treatment with clay-covered blades is most famously known from Japan. I don't think this is documented from anywhere on Borneo... Regards, Kai |
25th February 2023, 11:32 PM | #19 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
Quote:
I would place your example carefully as mid. to end 20th century, judging by the color of the wood but keep in mind that light/flash can cozen. People coming to the most crazy ideas, I've seen shellac coated items (most of the time early collected items, to varnish with shellac was popular from end 19th to first quarter 20th century), here works benzine, this items were most of the times good preserved), chromed blades (a real horror ), many elbow grease required, items coated with clear modern varnish (every time difficult to find the good solution), the most annoying is when people "cleaned" a blade with a grinder or something else. Disgusting is a blade coated with centuries old grease. Regards, Detlef |
|
25th February 2023, 11:39 PM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,761
|
|
26th February 2023, 01:53 PM | #21 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
|
well, boiling hot water did the trick!
The blade was covered with probably very old nitrocellulose lacquer or even shellac. A collector friend from Austria suggested that I tried that before the chemical way (which I wasn't too keen to undertake) and lo and behold, it worked. It came loose and I removed the deposit with a brush and now the blade is waiting to go on its journey by being treated with Warangan (it is a Bali Kris) from a local expert. Another step will be finding a nice sheath or sarong for it but that is another bridge which I will have to cross in the future. Thanks for everyone's contribution |
26th February 2023, 01:58 PM | #22 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 474
|
Quote:
More worldly form is to treat the blades with things like Balistol or Singer sewing machine oil (with or without a scent). |
|
|
|