two rapiers 19th century??

[cel7]

Today I was able to buy two rapiers along with an Italian cabbaset and a breastplate. According to the seller everything was 19th century copy and the price was also based on that. Now I'm not very knowledgeable about rapiers so maybe someone here can shed some more light on it. I'll make it two posts in connection with the photos. The first is 116 cm long and has a very sharp broad blade (remarkably wider than the second specimen). It certainly has some age but I can't say if it's 100 or 350 years old.
Perhaps the photos will tell you something.

[cel7]

Number two is also about 116 cm long. Narrow blade. Looks a bit less old than the other, but I really have no idea. Pommel and guard are both made of iron.

[CSinTX]

Looks like a nice copy with maybe an older blade?

[CSinTX]

Looks like another nice copy with a repurposed back sword blade. Is it only sharp on one side?

[kronckew]

Blade length, weights, balance point info, and full length pics would help. The backsword one is more side sword than rapier looking, I'd guess it's the shorter one too. And I could be wrong. The double-edged one looks more rapier-ish, and the markings on the forte deserve close-ups. close-ups of the blade tips would also help. They could be repurposed blades with more decorative Victorian revival hilts, or, I suspect, maybe older than you think. But not really my area of expertise, tho I like them a lot, tho that may change with more info .

[cel7]

Originally Posted by CSinTX

Looks like another nice copy with a repurposed back sword blade. Is it only sharp on one side?

Thanks for yor comment. It is sharp at both edges.

[kronckew]

See my comments on the other post on these two. Merging the two threads by a mod might be a good idea. Full length side by side photos would be nce, again allowing side-by-side comparison and tip details. The wide cross guard of the rapier is more common on what we call rapiers, a thrusting point centric, and dismounted infantry/civilian weapon, the backsword one is less rapier-ish and more `side sword/early mortuary look, and more useful for cutting on horseback than the other.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Blade length, weights, balance point info, and full length pics would help. The backsword one is more side sword than rapier looking, I'd guess it's the shorter one too. And I could be wrong. The double-edged one looks more rapier-ish, and the markings on the forte deserve close-ups. close-ups of the blade tips would also help. They could be repurposed blades with more decorative Victorian revival hilts, or, I suspect, maybe older than you think. But not really my area of expertise, tho I like them a lot, tho that may change with more info .

Did some measurements and took some more pictures. The blade length till ricasso is 9350mm. Point of balance 280mm from top of pommel. The length of the fuller is 700mm. No markings visible. The blade is sharp on both edges.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by kronckew

... Merging the two threads by a mod might be a good idea....

Yes, that is more functional. Certainly cel7 doesn't mind .

[kronckew]

I just noted a apparent defect/repair in the rapier (cropped pic below) where one of the sidebars joins the cross guard. Is the light substance brass (as in a brazed repair) or some sort of adhesive? A brazed repair would be more indicative of a 'user' rather than a wall hanger. Adhesive (epoxy?) would mean a modern botch job. Same if it is a recent tig or spot weld that hasn't been smoothed & matched in patina...

[Radboud]

Two very nice swords and fun to own, but I will agree with the vendor that they're 19th Century reproductions.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by kronckew

I just noted a apparent defect/repair in the rapier (cropped pic below) where one of the sidebars joins the cross guard. Is the light substance brass (as in a brazed repair) or some sort of adhesive? A brazed repair would be more indicative of a 'user' rather than a wall hanger. Adhesive (epoxy?) would mean a modern botch job. Same if it is a recent tig or spot weld that hasn't been smoothed & matched in patina...

It is Brass, so probably an older repair. Still, I think this one is a 19th century copy.

[cel7]

Originally Posted by Radboud

Two very nice swords and fun to own, but I will agree with the vendor that they're 19th Century reproductions.

I also think they are 19th century copies. I do suspect that the blade of the second copy is older and may have been reused.

[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by cel7

It is Brass, so probably an older repair. Still, I think this one is a 19th century copy.

Brass rod brazing is still used regularly and requires less equipment than arc, mig, or tig. It cleans up more easily around the joint. I bought some the other day for repairs.