First post: A Balinese Keris

Anthony G. · 18th January 2022, 03:59 AM

Lombok keris? Nice keris.

Jean · 18th January 2022, 09:05 AM

From the pics I would rather identify the pamor pattern as Wengkon Isen (frame with contents), and agree with the proposed Lombok origin rather than Bali.

milandro · 18th January 2022, 09:34 AM

Thank you all, it may very well be from Lombok, which is my reason to ask for knowledge , thanks also for the revised suggestion on the pamor. I will try to learn about this. It was previously identified as such but of course I know that pamor identification is often debatable and debated.

I will post in another occasion pictures of another wilah that I think has a similar pamor and which is being etched at the moment and provided witha new Sarong.

Also I will be curious to know about what you think about the pamorless tombak and the Merak engraved Madura Keris.

kai · 18th January 2022, 01:23 PM

Welcome to the forum, Milandro!

The polish and stain seems to be original (or rather genuine Bali/Lombok style regardless of the origin of the blade) - keep it well oiled in a plastic sleeve and try to preserve it!

I agree with Jean on the main pamor attempted here being wengkon; quite uncommon for any Bugis blades. Thus, I'd guess at local manufacture (probably Lombok) with possibly a good dose of Bugis influence. (And maybe a bit of east Java?)

Regards,
Kai

kai · 18th January 2022, 01:27 PM

P.S.: The blade could well be antique; the fittings are modern replacements though.

milandro · 18th January 2022, 02:35 PM

thank you, for your comments.

I am still looking for an interpretation of the meaning and origin of the figures on the warangka and pendok

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2022, 09:33 PM

Milandro, the "meaning" of the ornamentation, I would take to be purely for the sake of ornamentation.

This is a reasonably modern scabbard & hilt, it is fairly pedestrian work, and from the photos it appears to be carved in relief before the sunggingan work was applied.

I cannot think of any Balinese use for this sort of dress, other than to make it more attractive for sale.

The blade is not really curved, rather, it is straight on one edge and has a very slight swelling on the other edge, which causes it to look as if it has a curve. If we look closely at the pamor on the side of the blade with the straight edge, we can see that the wengkon is missing.

In my opinion I feel that this blade probably had some damage to the straight edge side, maybe a couple of nicks, or perhaps a crack, this damage was cleaned up and in the process the edge became straight and part of the wengkon was lost.

In any case, it is an old keris, it is Balinese, it is reasonably attractive, and as a beginning part of a collection, it is not a bad acquisition.

David · 19th January 2022, 05:00 AM

I agree with Alan's assessment here. This is an antique Bali blade in a kitschy modern dress. As Alan pointed out, this sheath would have no proper place for wear within Balinese society and is something made more to attract the eye of visitors from outside the culture. So i wouldn't look for too much meaning in it. The sheath is certainly newer than the blade, but was probably not very old when this was collected. A 19th century blade in vintage touristy dress.
I also agree with Kai that this has an old Bali stain that is in fairly good shape. I would not try to re-do it as the technique of maintaining a polish after applying warangan is difficult at best. Oil it and preserve it.
And i will add that again, there is no pendok with this ensemble. A pendok is a metal sleeve that covers all or part of the sheath stem. This keris as well as the other keris you posted do not have pendoks.

19th January 2022, 05:00 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,051	I agree with Alan's assessment here. This is an antique Bali blade in a kitschy modern dress. As Alan pointed out, this sheath would have no proper place for wear within Balinese society and is something made more to attract the eye of visitors from outside the culture. So i wouldn't look for too much meaning in it. The sheath is certainly newer than the blade, but was probably not very old when this was collected. A 19th century blade in vintage touristy dress. I also agree with Kai that this has an old Bali stain that is in fairly good shape. I would not try to re-do it as the technique of maintaining a polish after applying warangan is difficult at best. Oil it and preserve it. And i will add that again, there is no pendok with this ensemble. A pendok is a metal sleeve that covers all or part of the sheath stem. This keris as well as the other keris you posted do not have pendoks. Last edited by David; 21st January 2022 at 01:09 AM.

18th January 2022, 03:59 AM	#1
Anthony G. Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 457	Lombok keris? Nice keris.

18th January 2022, 09:05 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	From the pics I would rather identify the pamor pattern as Wengkon Isen (frame with contents), and agree with the proposed Lombok origin rather than Bali.

18th January 2022, 09:34 AM	#3
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 423	Thank you all, it may very well be from Lombok, which is my reason to ask for knowledge , thanks also for the revised suggestion on the pamor. I will try to learn about this. It was previously identified as such but of course I know that pamor identification is often debatable and debated. I will post in another occasion pictures of another wilah that I think has a similar pamor and which is being etched at the moment and provided witha new Sarong. Also I will be curious to know about what you think about the pamorless tombak and the Merak engraved Madura Keris.

18th January 2022, 01:23 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,236	Welcome to the forum, Milandro! The polish and stain seems to be original (or rather genuine Bali/Lombok style regardless of the origin of the blade) - keep it well oiled in a plastic sleeve and try to preserve it! I agree with Jean on the main pamor attempted here being wengkon; quite uncommon for any Bugis blades. Thus, I'd guess at local manufacture (probably Lombok) with possibly a good dose of Bugis influence. (And maybe a bit of east Java?) Regards, Kai

18th January 2022, 01:27 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,236	P.S.: The blade could well be antique; the fittings are modern replacements though.

18th January 2022, 02:35 PM	#6
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 423	thank you, for your comments. I am still looking for an interpretation of the meaning and origin of the figures on the warangka and pendok

18th January 2022, 09:33 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,751	Milandro, the "meaning" of the ornamentation, I would take to be purely for the sake of ornamentation. This is a reasonably modern scabbard & hilt, it is fairly pedestrian work, and from the photos it appears to be carved in relief before the sunggingan work was applied. I cannot think of any Balinese use for this sort of dress, other than to make it more attractive for sale. The blade is not really curved, rather, it is straight on one edge and has a very slight swelling on the other edge, which causes it to look as if it has a curve. If we look closely at the pamor on the side of the blade with the straight edge, we can see that the wengkon is missing. In my opinion I feel that this blade probably had some damage to the straight edge side, maybe a couple of nicks, or perhaps a crack, this damage was cleaned up and in the process the edge became straight and part of the wengkon was lost. In any case, it is an old keris, it is Balinese, it is reasonably attractive, and as a beginning part of a collection, it is not a bad acquisition.