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[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

I have to disagree Marius, considering the huge difference between Pappenheimers and Swept Hilts and Cup hilts and etc... the only constant is the blade.

You are in fact making my point!

Swept hilt, Pappenheim, cup hilt, clam shell hilt and ring hilt are ALL typical and DEFINING rapier hilts.

Moreover, some later 17th century Spanish rapiers had very thin and narrow, as well as rather short blades, yet they are still considered to be rapiers.

However, if you take the very same blade to a smallsword hilt, you will have a smallsword all the way.

Now have a look at the rapier below. Notice anything strange?!
It is the smallsword I posted previously, to which I replaced the hilt with a clam shell Spanish rapier hilt and... ta-da... here you have a rapier!

[urbanspaceman]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

You are in fact making my point!

Swept hilt, Pappenheim, cup hilt, clam shell hilt and ring hilts are ALL typical and DEFINING rapier hilts.

Moreover, some later 17th century Spanish rapiers had very thin and narrow, as well as rather short blades, yet they are still considered to be rapiers.

However, if you take the very same blade to a smallsword hilt, you will have a smallsword all the way.

Point well made Marius. My two swords I mentioned with old rapier blades and new court-sword hilts are very definitely 'Courtswords' but with rapier blades (short and narrow). It is the blade I was naming though, not the entire package, and that is why I opted for calling them 'transitional'; although, without getting into semantics, they are -strictly speaking and quite rightly- not what have been considered transitional rapiers up to now. Hence my confusion.
ps Thank-you, I couldn't remember clam and ring.