Very Nice Nimcha

ariel · 24th April 2019, 01:06 AM

Charles, you are outdoing yourself time and time again!
Absolutely gorgeous!

However, I do not think it is North African. IMHO, it is South Arabian, likely Omani. My main point is the configuration of the blade: widening toward the tip. Similar configuration is seen in Elgood’s book on weapons of Arabia ( Fig. 2.1 and by description 2.2). Seems to me it is quite short: thus a genuine “nimcha”:-), a naval cutlass, so popular with seafaring Omanis.

Also, the lavish decoration is very reminiscent of the luxurious Zanzibari nimchas with gold coins on the handle from Buttin’s catalogue ( plate XXX) and Hales’ catalogue ( Figs. 589-90). Similarly “segmented” decor of the scabbard is also seen in the same book ( 2.18 and2.21)

Also, you might recall Elgood’s comment about Bukharans in Oman. They brought enameling there.

I doubt there is an iron-clad provenance, so that’s only my gut feeling.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 24th April 2019, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Charles, you are outdoing yourself time and time again!
Absolutely gorgeous!

However, I do not think it is North African. IMHO, it is South Arabian, likely Omani. My main point is the configuration of the blade: widening toward the tip. Similar configuration is seen in Elgood’s book on weapons of Arabia ( Fig. 2.1 and by description 2.2). Seems to me it is quite short: thus a genuine “nimcha”:-), a naval cutlass, so popular with seafaring Omanis.

Also, the lavish decoration is very reminiscent of the luxurious Zanzibari nimchas with gold coins on the handle from Buttin’s catalogue ( plate XXX) and Hales’ catalogue ( Figs. 589-90). Similarly “segmented” decor of the scabbard is also seen in the same book ( 2.18 and2.21)

Also, you might recall Elgood’s comment about Bukharans in Oman. They brought enameling there.

I doubt there is an iron-clad provenance, so that’s only my gut feeling.

Its not a weapon I have ever seen in Oman. This does however, satisfy the equation of being Algerian . The https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/search...t=Objects&ii=0 I Couldn't shrink it in size to fit EAA parameters... but you can see it on the web..The example has a part tortoiseshell hilt although it may well be of the same family . The provenance is in my opinion Algerian... surely it has to be off the coast as it is every inch a corsairs weapon. However having said that I have not got the Hales or Elgood reference work before me.. ~ Regarding coins on Omani or Zanzibari items I take it on those with Ivory hilts and gold work probably added by goldsmiths on the Zanj or even in Stonetown… These are not coins but circular shapes along with leaf shaped designs from the African comb making fraternity; see below..
I doubt if there is such an animal as a Zanzibari Nimcha and to my eye Butin got as close as any expert in his three plates which I placed at an earlier thread but I believe his detail still accurate and on his 3 plates there is no mention of Zanzibar...therefor
please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23387 post 12 and viewing plate XXX 993 994 995 … The project Nimcha is seen as one of those .It may even be on Plate XXX11 991... Shown as an other oriental design.

I must confess I have never seen Bukharen work in Oman...although in the Yemen, yes, for good historical reasons and known links… Further I have no recollection of enameling work here .. Do you mean Yemen also?

ariel · 24th April 2019, 10:45 PM

I must admit I have never seen luxurious Yemeni nimcha.

Waiting for Lotfy.

Jim McDougall · 25th April 2019, 03:27 AM

It does seem that these hilts are 'Arab' and mostly associated with Algeria from examples are known as early as 17th c. . In "Arts of the Muslim Knight" (B.Mohammed, ed. 2008, p.77) . In this reference it is noted sabres of this type are seen as early as c.1700 with an Ottoman tughra, and another of this typw was captured at Battle of Oran (Algeria) in 1732.

Elgood (1994)does show one with this type blade (flared tip) in 2.1 but with a karabela type hilt, and another with this type hilt (2.2) same type of blade.
On p.15 Elgood describes the (2.1) type often found in sughs in Riyadh with these 'nimsha' blades and a small brass guard, and that they are attributed by Arab traders to Yemen.
It is noted that these are pretty unaesthetic (I have had these and they are munition grade) with these flared blades.

Whether 'Ottoman' or 'Arab' classifications are considered, these hilts with notable peak at pommel seem to occur throughout the Arab sphere, from Malabar, through the Meditteranean, the Magreb and Zanzibar. With North (1975) attribution they seem aligned with 16th century North Italian styles, and indeed many of these blades are Italian it does seem. As Buttin describes many of these type hilts and swords, always as 'Arab' but no specification of Zanzibar, many of these surely ended up there just as throughout these other regions, but were by no means indigenous there.

I have not been able to find any reference to Bukharen enameling in Yemen, but on p. 75 he does note a janbiyya bought during a pilgrimage in Mecca and was subsequently embellished in Bukhara with cabochon and cloisonné turquoises, but notes it is possible the work may have been done in Mecca.
This may suggest Bukharen artisans may have been in Mecca, but whether in Yemen unclear.
It does seem some nice swords were used in Yemen, mostly Hadhramaut, and other well mounted in San'aa, but certainly nothing like this.

Most definitely one of these very old Arab blades of 'cutlass' form and fantastically refurbished and likely it would seem if 19th c very early perhaps even late 18th. Breathtaking piece!!!

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:29 AM

HI Charles,

I've long followed this wonderful sword and it is certainly in the right home now.

I've also kept this reference in mind for years and this is the right place to include it as a specific example of 17th C. North Africa/Ottoman workmanship. The attached images from a German private collection show a sword with similar enamel work, with a different style grip, but with the classic Mediterranean trade blade, often attributed to Genoa (though I think Mediterranean is the best we can do at this point without specific evidence of an Italian city production).

I would certainly think this sword has little to do with the East African style of sword, lso referred to as a nimcha, and even less with the swords originating from the Southern Arabian peninsula, a (interestingly that is the terminology along the west coast of India as well for a sword indicating the trade routes the word, if not the form traveled on, though there are Hyderabadi hilt forms that are similar to the East African, or rather Indian Ocean style of hilt).

However, the Bukharan enamel connection is definetely a possibility as I've seen this blue and green enamel work on other Ottoman daggers, including on sold by us some years back over gold, see below:

http://armsandantiques.com/beautiful...r-dagger-id851

And also another found in the Wallace Collection. I think the enamelling is most likely early 18th C. Ottoman workmanship, likely on order depending on where in the Empire, or associated states, it went.

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:33 AM

One final point on dating is that the form of the scabbard and the style of mounting hearkens most closely to the early Ottoman period mounted swords, often with karabela shaped hilts, with the central medallion and band.

In addition, the specific style of decoration with a repetitive decorative pattern, along the scabbard fittings that is similar to Ottoman 17th C. karabelas, and is also found on East European swords of the period as well, which were themselves likely influenced by Ottoman workmanship.

One does not find the central scabbard fitting of this style, on 18th C. or later Ottoman sword generally.

ArmsAndAntiques · 25th April 2019, 03:37 AM

And finally in reference to an 18th C.dating, the gold yataghan given by the Bey of Tunis to Danish King Frederik V, illustrated in Niels Arthur Andersen's book on "Gold and Coral" provides a further reference for this scabbard style and mounting, though that sword was presented in 1753.

Now in the Danish National Museum (EM60a,EM60b, and EMb61)

Jim McDougall · 25th April 2019, 03:48 AM

A&A, we crossed posts.....well noted on the Ottoman enameling and styling, and the distinct influence of some of these decorative techniques in Europe, with their fascination with 'Oriental' exotica. There are distinct similarities in these hilts with certain N.Italian hilts of 16th c. with the quillon systems as well as the ring guards seen on the 'nimchas' long held to be 'Zanzibar' examples.

Edster · 25th April 2019, 04:16 PM

I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

fernando · 25th April 2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edster

I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

And the stamp on the blade ... remember, Charles ?

ALEX · 30th April 2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Charles, you are outdoing yourself time and time again!
Absolutely gorgeous!
...
Also, you might recall Elgood’s comment about Bukharans in Oman. They brought enameling there.
...
I doubt there is an iron-clad provenance, so that’s only my gut feeling.

Charles, I cannot help but say: 'what a sword!!!!!!!" Congratulations!
To elaborate on Ariel's 'gut feeling', here is Bukharan enamel box that displays some similarities in pattern and technique. I think Ariel (and Elgood) comments can be given serious consideration here.

Kubur · 30th April 2019, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Charles, I cannot help but say: 'what a sword!!!!!!!" Congratulations!
To elaborate on Ariel's 'gut feeling', here is Bukharan enamel box that displays some similarities in pattern and technique. I think Ariel (and Elgood) comments can be given serious consideration here.

Enamel work was used all over Muslim countries, especially with the Ottomans this is not a Bukharan specificity.

This Central Asian link is a nonsense. As another forum member mentions rightly, this is clearly an Algerian sword (at least it's obvious to me).

ALEX · 30th April 2019, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Enamel work was used all over Muslim countries, especially with the Ottomans this is not a Bukharan specificity.

This Central Asian link is a nonsense. As another forum member mentions rightly, this is clearly an Algerian sword (at least it's obvious to me).

Of course this is (north-west) African nimcha, and enamel was certainly used elsewhere (and not only in Muslim countries)... I am surprised you thought this was even an argument

The point was in the kind of enamel! There are some known enameled nimchas ( there are a few examples HERE ) The enamel is distinctively different in many ways. Considering A&A and Ariel's+Elgood comments, and known Central Asian enamel samples, I suggested the possibility of Charles' nimcha (fittings) being produced by Central Asian master living elsewhere.

Kubur · 30th April 2019, 10:11 AM

OK OK sorry Alex

Here is the one from the MET

ALEX · 30th April 2019, 10:55 AM

Kubur, this is a nice example. It looks like enamel/champleve work, is it possible to see it closer? Also, is there an attribution or more details on this nimcha?
Looking at details of technique, design and material, it appears to me that enamel on most Moroccan/Algerian fittings is more granular and geometrical, whereas on Charles' example it is made in different style and technique, which makes it quite unusual, and special! As Bukharan enamelers were known to be working in Oman, perhaps similar workshops existed elsewhere, a suggestion we cannot verify now. I look forward to more comparisons and analysis of similar examples.

Jim McDougall · 30th April 2019, 02:00 PM

Actually if I recall looking into Elgood (1994) there was no mention of Bukharen work in Oman, but he did mention such Central Asian (Bukharan) work in Yemen, as was also pointed out by Ibrahiim. It seems Yemen had far more variations of influential sword mounting and furbishing which include the impressive examples of Hadhramaut, I believe considered part of Yemen. Also in San'aa which I believe as well part of Yemen in kind there were impressive swords mounted.

Again trying to keep to the suggestion of Maghrebi, most likely Algerian provenance for this blade, and likely these mounts, as Algerian, other examples of deeply stamped marks have been found in earlier discussions on a pistol.
As earlier noted these deep stamps may be those of an outfitter rather than a formally recognized arsenal. These places mounted received trade blades for distribution, and similar deeply stamped marks seem to occur in similar blade location near the ricasso in many cases (except obviously the pistol which is on the top of the barrel over the lock, not sure of proper term).

There was I believe a Yemeni classified sword of silverwork mounts with a straight backsword blade again with similar stamp (and location) but with central blade markings of Italian form (three hourglass type stamps).

As well noted by A&A, enameling was practiced throughout Ottoman Empire and the presence and skills of artisans from Central Asian regions and perhaps others would have certainly altered regional characteristics.

Without specific and reliable provenance we would have to turn to the styles, motif and theme of features in hopes of better classification.
Overall, most elements direct to probable Algerian mounting of this remarkable sabre.

Charles just wanted to thank you again for posting this, and giving us all what has become a great exercise in investigating this sword and others of its form.

24th April 2019, 01:06 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Charles, you are outdoing yourself time and time again! Absolutely gorgeous! However, I do not think it is North African. IMHO, it is South Arabian, likely Omani. My main point is the configuration of the blade: widening toward the tip. Similar configuration is seen in Elgood’s book on weapons of Arabia ( Fig. 2.1 and by description 2.2). Seems to me it is quite short: thus a genuine “nimcha”:-), a naval cutlass, so popular with seafaring Omanis. Also, the lavish decoration is very reminiscent of the luxurious Zanzibari nimchas with gold coins on the handle from Buttin’s catalogue ( plate XXX) and Hales’ catalogue ( Figs. 589-90). Similarly “segmented” decor of the scabbard is also seen in the same book ( 2.18 and2.21) Also, you might recall Elgood’s comment about Bukharans in Oman. They brought enameling there. I doubt there is an iron-clad provenance, so that’s only my gut feeling. Last edited by ariel; 24th April 2019 at 06:07 AM.

25th April 2019, 03:29 AM	#5
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	HI Charles, I've long followed this wonderful sword and it is certainly in the right home now. I've also kept this reference in mind for years and this is the right place to include it as a specific example of 17th C. North Africa/Ottoman workmanship. The attached images from a German private collection show a sword with similar enamel work, with a different style grip, but with the classic Mediterranean trade blade, often attributed to Genoa (though I think Mediterranean is the best we can do at this point without specific evidence of an Italian city production). I would certainly think this sword has little to do with the East African style of sword, lso referred to as a nimcha, and even less with the swords originating from the Southern Arabian peninsula, a (interestingly that is the terminology along the west coast of India as well for a sword indicating the trade routes the word, if not the form traveled on, though there are Hyderabadi hilt forms that are similar to the East African, or rather Indian Ocean style of hilt). However, the Bukharan enamel connection is definetely a possibility as I've seen this blue and green enamel work on other Ottoman daggers, including on sold by us some years back over gold, see below: http://armsandantiques.com/beautiful...r-dagger-id851 And also another found in the Wallace Collection. I think the enamelling is most likely early 18th C. Ottoman workmanship, likely on order depending on where in the Empire, or associated states, it went. Attached Images

30th April 2019, 10:11 AM	#14
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	OK OK sorry Alex Here is the one from the MET Attached Images

24th April 2019, 10:45 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I must admit I have never seen luxurious Yemeni nimcha. Waiting for Lotfy.

25th April 2019, 03:27 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,792	It does seem that these hilts are 'Arab' and mostly associated with Algeria from examples are known as early as 17th c. . In "Arts of the Muslim Knight" (B.Mohammed, ed. 2008, p.77) . In this reference it is noted sabres of this type are seen as early as c.1700 with an Ottoman tughra, and another of this typw was captured at Battle of Oran (Algeria) in 1732. Elgood (1994)does show one with this type blade (flared tip) in 2.1 but with a karabela type hilt, and another with this type hilt (2.2) same type of blade. On p.15 Elgood describes the (2.1) type often found in sughs in Riyadh with these 'nimsha' blades and a small brass guard, and that they are attributed by Arab traders to Yemen. It is noted that these are pretty unaesthetic (I have had these and they are munition grade) with these flared blades. Whether 'Ottoman' or 'Arab' classifications are considered, these hilts with notable peak at pommel seem to occur throughout the Arab sphere, from Malabar, through the Meditteranean, the Magreb and Zanzibar. With North (1975) attribution they seem aligned with 16th century North Italian styles, and indeed many of these blades are Italian it does seem. As Buttin describes many of these type hilts and swords, always as 'Arab' but no specification of Zanzibar, many of these surely ended up there just as throughout these other regions, but were by no means indigenous there. I have not been able to find any reference to Bukharen enameling in Yemen, but on p. 75 he does note a janbiyya bought during a pilgrimage in Mecca and was subsequently embellished in Bukhara with cabochon and cloisonné turquoises, but notes it is possible the work may have been done in Mecca. This may suggest Bukharen artisans may have been in Mecca, but whether in Yemen unclear. It does seem some nice swords were used in Yemen, mostly Hadhramaut, and other well mounted in San'aa, but certainly nothing like this. Most definitely one of these very old Arab blades of 'cutlass' form and fantastically refurbished and likely it would seem if 19th c very early perhaps even late 18th. Breathtaking piece!!!

25th April 2019, 03:33 AM	#6
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	One final point on dating is that the form of the scabbard and the style of mounting hearkens most closely to the early Ottoman period mounted swords, often with karabela shaped hilts, with the central medallion and band. In addition, the specific style of decoration with a repetitive decorative pattern, along the scabbard fittings that is similar to Ottoman 17th C. karabelas, and is also found on East European swords of the period as well, which were themselves likely influenced by Ottoman workmanship. One does not find the central scabbard fitting of this style, on 18th C. or later Ottoman sword generally.

25th April 2019, 03:37 AM	#7
ArmsAndAntiques Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 80	And finally in reference to an 18th C.dating, the gold yataghan given by the Bey of Tunis to Danish King Frederik V, illustrated in Niels Arthur Andersen's book on "Gold and Coral" provides a further reference for this scabbard style and mounting, though that sword was presented in 1753. Now in the Danish National Museum (EM60a,EM60b, and EMb61)

25th April 2019, 03:48 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,792	A&A, we crossed posts.....well noted on the Ottoman enameling and styling, and the distinct influence of some of these decorative techniques in Europe, with their fascination with 'Oriental' exotica. There are distinct similarities in these hilts with certain N.Italian hilts of 16th c. with the quillon systems as well as the ring guards seen on the 'nimchas' long held to be 'Zanzibar' examples.

25th April 2019, 04:16 PM	#9
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 402	I wonder if a translation of the Arabic script on the bands might provide useful information.

30th April 2019, 10:55 AM	#15
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Kubur, this is a nice example. It looks like enamel/champleve work, is it possible to see it closer? Also, is there an attribution or more details on this nimcha? Looking at details of technique, design and material, it appears to me that enamel on most Moroccan/Algerian fittings is more granular and geometrical, whereas on Charles' example it is made in different style and technique, which makes it quite unusual, and special! As Bukharan enamelers were known to be working in Oman, perhaps similar workshops existed elsewhere, a suggestion we cannot verify now. I look forward to more comparisons and analysis of similar examples.

30th April 2019, 02:00 PM	#16
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,792	Actually if I recall looking into Elgood (1994) there was no mention of Bukharen work in Oman, but he did mention such Central Asian (Bukharan) work in Yemen, as was also pointed out by Ibrahiim. It seems Yemen had far more variations of influential sword mounting and furbishing which include the impressive examples of Hadhramaut, I believe considered part of Yemen. Also in San'aa which I believe as well part of Yemen in kind there were impressive swords mounted. Again trying to keep to the suggestion of Maghrebi, most likely Algerian provenance for this blade, and likely these mounts, as Algerian, other examples of deeply stamped marks have been found in earlier discussions on a pistol. As earlier noted these deep stamps may be those of an outfitter rather than a formally recognized arsenal. These places mounted received trade blades for distribution, and similar deeply stamped marks seem to occur in similar blade location near the ricasso in many cases (except obviously the pistol which is on the top of the barrel over the lock, not sure of proper term). There was I believe a Yemeni classified sword of silverwork mounts with a straight backsword blade again with similar stamp (and location) but with central blade markings of Italian form (three hourglass type stamps). As well noted by A&A, enameling was practiced throughout Ottoman Empire and the presence and skills of artisans from Central Asian regions and perhaps others would have certainly altered regional characteristics. Without specific and reliable provenance we would have to turn to the styles, motif and theme of features in hopes of better classification. Overall, most elements direct to probable Algerian mounting of this remarkable sabre. Charles just wanted to thank you again for posting this, and giving us all what has become a great exercise in investigating this sword and others of its form.