Spanish sword

Hotspur · 4th December 2017, 04:47 PM

Some previous discussion with more photos
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-Spanish-sword

Cheers

GC

Victrix · 4th December 2017, 05:14 PM

Grateful for any constructive comments in this forum regarding this sword. Anyone recognize the style, time period, marks, etc?

fernando · 4th December 2017, 06:38 PM

Hello Victrix,
Let us see that comments on your sword are technicaly constructive as you wish. However be sure that members participation yes, is certainly constructive.
I gather that you know for yourself that Juan Martinez has no longer lived in the time this sword was produced. So the mark in the ricasso is either from a different smith or a simulation; or even a Toledo (TO) mark applied by German smiths, from where your blade might have come.
This 18th century Cavalry sword model, traditionally called Boca de Caballo, basically so due to its horse mouth aspect, has a comprehensive description in the following article:
http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/49-Conchas.pdf

By the way, you certainly have a copy of the Palomares Nomina; a work on the marks and names of Toledo sword smiths ...

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Victrix · 4th December 2017, 07:35 PM

Many thanks for that, Fernando. I guess I was just curious if someone recognized the distinctive trumpet ends on the quillon and the pommel head? Or the distinctive pin head shaped pommel, or the fuller? I believe Naples and Milan were part of the Spanish crown in old days. Also the concha shell guard on one side seems quite large compared to similar swords. The blade could be older than the sword, but the fuller looks slightly Germanic to me I must admit. I’m curious about the rounded tip which makes it unlikely that this sword was used as a rapier although the tip is quite flexible like a spring rather than rigid. So many questions in my mind.

Many thanks for the article on the Spanish swords. I will try to run it through the google translator.

Victrix · 5th December 2017, 12:53 PM

Same, but different?

fernando · 5th December 2017, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

Same, but different?

Both atypical, in any case. The example you selected from Calvó's work is mentioned as having details of extreme sumptuosity, brass guardapolvo engraved with trophees and all. Blade with faded inscription, with signs of being German.
Military swords of this model would have more simple features, with Royal initials in the blade.
On the other hand, your example would also be civilian, with its guardapolvo. You will also notice that its quillons have a much broader S shape. Could it be that neither hilt nor blade are Spanish ?

.
And by the way, none of these swords have rapier features; why should they have ?

Victrix · 5th December 2017, 04:59 PM

The style looks very Spanish to me, but the sword on the left might be slightly older (more bold curves)? The missing link to the Pappenheimer??

4th December 2017, 06:38 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,666	Hello Victrix, Let us see that comments on your sword are technicaly constructive as you wish. However be sure that members participation yes, is certainly constructive. I gather that you know for yourself that Juan Martinez has no longer lived in the time this sword was produced. So the mark in the ricasso is either from a different smith or a simulation; or even a Toledo (TO) mark applied by German smiths, from where your blade might have come. This 18th century Cavalry sword model, traditionally called Boca de Caballo, basically so due to its horse mouth aspect, has a comprehensive description in the following article: http://www.catalogacionarmas.com/public/49-Conchas.pdf By the way, you certainly have a copy of the Palomares Nomina; a work on the marks and names of Toledo sword smiths ... . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 4th December 2017 at 06:52 PM.

5th December 2017, 12:53 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 686	Same, but different? Attached Images

4th December 2017, 04:47 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 494	Some previous discussion with more photos http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-Spanish-sword Cheers GC

4th December 2017, 05:14 PM	#2
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 686	Grateful for any constructive comments in this forum regarding this sword. Anyone recognize the style, time period, marks, etc?

4th December 2017, 07:35 PM	#4
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 686	Many thanks for that, Fernando. I guess I was just curious if someone recognized the distinctive trumpet ends on the quillon and the pommel head? Or the distinctive pin head shaped pommel, or the fuller? I believe Naples and Milan were part of the Spanish crown in old days. Also the concha shell guard on one side seems quite large compared to similar swords. The blade could be older than the sword, but the fuller looks slightly Germanic to me I must admit. I’m curious about the rounded tip which makes it unlikely that this sword was used as a rapier although the tip is quite flexible like a spring rather than rigid. So many questions in my mind. Many thanks for the article on the Spanish swords. I will try to run it through the google translator.

5th December 2017, 04:59 PM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 686	The style looks very Spanish to me, but the sword on the left might be slightly older (more bold curves)? The missing link to the Pappenheimer??