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19th July 2017, 02:24 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 494
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Hi Corrado,
The JPC is from a monogram on a Cabinet https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/BK-16676 It was made by Abraham Roetgen, the best furniture maker in Johann Philip his time. Other texts concerning Johann Philipp are: "Johann Philipp von Walderdorff was more secular than his predecessors. He was a passionate hunter, loved the luxury, and presented it at his court. " |
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20th July 2017, 09:01 AM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,171
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The monogram of archbishop Johann Philipp von Walderdorff is undoutablyJPC = Johann Philipp Comes. My mistake, I overlooked the meaning of the "L" on the barrel of your gun.
The monogram on your flintlockgun "JPL" must belong to another owner. The only possible solution for this JPL is Johann Philipp Graf von Lamberg, bishop of the bishopric of Passau in Bavaria between 1689 and 1712. This means that your gun must be much older than said before. The maker thus must have been Georg Daniel Spangenberg, who was born in 1670 and died in 1752. Sorry for the irritation corrado26 |
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21st July 2017, 11:18 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 494
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Hi Corrado,
Thank you again for your lead towards Johann Philipp von Lamberg. I was wondering if the orb like symbol could be that of the Globus Cruciger, the catholic symbol for a powerfull ruler both spiritually and earthly? It is a variation on the ussual orb, missing a cross but with a flame on top (holy spirit?) I ask because we know that Johann Philipp went to Warsaw in 1697 as imperial minister, where he was the king of Augsburg. In 1699 he received the office of an Imperial commissary. So a man of high stature, making for an even more precise date of this gun if it can be connected to the orb. |
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21st July 2017, 12:31 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,171
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I do not know what this orb stands for (I am absolutely no fan of whatever religion). But:
Johann Philipp von Lamberg (he was never King of Augsburg, because at Augsburg there has never been a king!!) was, although Duke and Bishop, also a politician and diplomat. 1697 he went to Warschau/PL as an imperial ambassador, where he propelled the election of August, the Archduke of Saxony to king of Poland. In Juli 1700 he was promoted into the rank of a cardinal by pope Innozenz XII. Perhaps this orb has something to do with his rank as cardinal? corrado26 |
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22nd July 2017, 04:11 PM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,621
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Hi Marcus.
That is one beautiful gun !!!! While not in my area/knowledge of collecting, I just had to comment on what a wonderful piece and an interesting Thread trying to identify it. Great reading. I do notice the lock lacks the arm connecting the pan to the frizzen. This is often associated with a pre-1760 style of lock. It would not surprise me if it is determined that this gun was made before this date. Maybe second quarter of the 18th Century. Wonderful workmanship. Congratulations. Rick |
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22nd July 2017, 05:47 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 1,171
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In case that bishop and cardinal Johann Philipp von Lamberg gave the order to make this gun, it must have been made between the years of 1689 and 1712. Pans with arms to the frizzen screw have still not been in use in These early years.
corrado26 |
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2nd August 2017, 08:02 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 494
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After closer inspection of the monogram i wonder if it doesnt read J S L?
Or J S P L? I attached better pictures of the monogram, i browsed high and low to find this monogram and the name it symolizes but sofar no succes. |
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