Balinese Keris Exhibition in Hollenstedt, Germany

A. G. Maisey · 11th July 2016, 11:33 PM

There is a book with the same title.

If anybody has read it, I'd be interested in an outline of the contents.

David · 12th July 2016, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

There is a book with the same title.

If anybody has read it, I'd be interested in an outline of the contents.

It looks like the book is simply a catalog of the exhibition.

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2016, 03:48 AM

Yeah, it could well be, but at E65 and with these two names attached to it, I would expect some text of substance.

Garret's "World of ---" was only a cat. too, but it remains probably the best single work on the Javanese Keris.

David · 12th July 2016, 04:38 AM

Perhaps. But unless i'm reading wrong it looks like it has 150 illustrations on 138 pages, so unless the illustrations are particularly small it doesn't seem to leave much room for text.

A. G. Maisey · 12th July 2016, 05:12 AM

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Another book of pretty pics we can live without.

asomotif · 12th July 2016, 11:43 PM

Thanks for bringing this up.

If these are old authentic keris, I would love to see them.
460 kms, probably much closer than most other forumites. But I am afraid I am not making the trip.

Pretty high price for the catalogue BTW.

Best regards,
Willem

kai · 13th July 2016, 02:11 AM

The exhibition is in the greater Hamburg area. So forumites visiting Hamburg should be able to make it!

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 13th July 2016, 08:58 AM

I ordered the catalog and will report on it. One of the authors is well-known among European kris collectors.
Regards

Sajen · 2nd August 2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Perhaps. But unless i'm reading wrong it looks like it has 150 illustrations on 138 pages, so unless the illustrations are particularly small it doesn't seem to leave much room for text.

Hello David,

the book has two parts, the first part is meant as introduction for ethnograhic and cultural interested poeple to introduce them to the world of the keris and it's cultural background, who want to read here new insights should not acquire this book.
But we have here members who could be interested to get a first impression about the Bali keris who will get some useful informations and can have a look to some higher end Bali keris.
And yes, it's a cat. but with some very nice and exquisite Bali keris, which seems to my eyes very worth an exhibition, more as good photographed.
The text part takes the first 61 pages.

Not everyone have the ability to visit museums where he will see only a few keris or have had the good luck to handle and see some good Bali keris so books for a lot of people the only access to see such keris.

Regards,
Detlef

David · 2nd August 2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

the book has two parts, the first part is meant as introduction for ethnograhic and cultural interested poeple to introduce them to the world of the keris and it's cultural background, who want to read here new insights should not acquire this book.
But we have here members who could be interested to get a first impression about the Bali keris who will get some useful informations and can have a look to some higher end Bali keris.
And yes, it's a cat. but with some very nice and exquisite Bali keris, which seems to my eyes very worth an exhibition, more as good photographed.
The text part takes the first 61 pages.

Not everyone have the ability to visit museums where he will see only a few keris or have had the good luck to handle and see some good Bali keris so books for a lot of people the only access to see such keris.

Regards,
Detlef

Detlef, i believe you might be addressing your argument in favor of acquiring this catalog to the wrong person. I have never suggested that it was not worth acquiring, only pointing out that according to the specs i read on the book it doesn't seem to leave all that much room for in depth analysis. Actually i personally find quite a bit of usefulness in books of well photographed nice and/or rare keris as i personally do not have quite as much access to view such keris first hand as a few of our members do.

Sajen · 2nd August 2016, 05:59 PM

Hello David,

used only your comment to give a short insight from the content of the catalogue. And yes, you have been correct that there isn't much place for deep analysis but wasn't thought to give it I think.
I only want to report what someone will find when he will order it. When I understand correct, it's available in german and english. The link to the flyer shows pictures from the exhibition rooms.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 21st August 2016, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, it could well be, but at E65 and with these two names attached to it, I would expect some text of substance.

Garret's "World of ---" was only a cat. too, but it remains probably the best single work on the Javanese Keris.

Actually, I do like the booklet (available in German and English versions): about half is IMVHO a pretty well-done introductory text mainly based on AW's thesis and the other half pics and short descriptions of all exhibited keris. I would have loved AW to integrate Alan's not-so-recent-anymore paper (2013. An Interpretation of the Pre-Islamic Javanese Keris: cp. http://kerisattosanaji.com/INTERPRETATIONPAGE1.html) or at least comment on it since I feel it also weights in quite a bit on the subject of keris Bali; also I would have liked the pics to also show blades which are hidden in scabbards at the exhibition. Nevertheless I believe it is a really nice book to have...

The booklet/cat is available from ificah.org for 38 Euro (+ postage fee) which certainly is much better deal than offered by the commercial online stores!

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 22nd August 2016, 09:39 PM

Roland and I am have had last Sunday the trip to Hollenstedt. I only can second what Kai already has said. Günther Heckmann is a very nice and courteous person and we have had some very enjoyable and informative hours. In respect to ificah and the nice booklet for resonable price we don't have taken pictures but it's planed to bring the pictures from ificah online visible but this can take some time.
What I can add is that the display is arranged with care and love to distraction. Very intersting!

Jean · 29th August 2016, 09:51 AM

I received and read the booklet and basically concur with the positive evaluation made by Kai and Sajen. All the kris shown are of good to high/ exceptional quality, I feel that the estimated age of some blades may be overestimated but have no definite elements to prove it.
The pictures are excellent but because of the black background, the pamor pattern of some blades is hardly visible.
The pamor pattern of many blades (22 out of 31) is identified as "Balinese Ilining Warih (flowing water) equivalent to Javanese Beras Wutah" although they look quite different from each other. This terminology was also used in the book from Neka but I am not sure that it is correct, other opinions would be welcome.
Some Balinese kris terms used (type of hilts, etc.) are not standard.

Regards

A. G. Maisey · 29th August 2016, 01:28 PM

Jean, if this book says that ilining warih is equivalent (ie, the same as) beras wutah, they are wrong.

Sorry, but they misunderstand.

Beras wutah (wos wutah, wusing wutah --- and a number of other spelling variations) is the major random pamor pattern:- you take the material, fold and weld a few times, forge the keris, carve: job done. Result:- random pamor:- beras wutah.

However, that random pamor has a number of variations in form, so we can have different wos wutah motifs; this is so in Javanese wos wutah and also in Balinese wos wutah.

The text in "Keris Bali Bersejarah" was written by Basuki Teguh Yuwono, a young Javanese gentleman who is a product of the Central Javanese keris school of Solo, and this background shines through consistently in his text.

On pages 97 & 98 of "Keris Bali ---" there are photos of various random pamor motifs. These pamors are all named as Wusing Wutah (ie, beras wutah, wos wutah), but then the motif variation is named, and ilining warih is one of these beras wutah motif variations, along with ngulit semangka, pulo tirto. gedhegan, gedhegan bulat, semangka wengkon, ngintip, wengkon.

So ilining warih is definitely not equivalent to beras wutah, it is motif variation of beras wutah.

We can find exactly the same thing in Jawa.

Strictly speaking the pamor motif should be named as "Beras Wutah, ilining warih", but who is so tightly controlled in terminology all the time? Not me, that's for sure, so mostly we just use the name of the motif variation, same as if we are talking about a motor vehicle, we don't always say "Ford Mustang", mostly we just say "Mustang":- everybody knows its a Ford.

Re the pamor being difficult to see. Is it possible that these blades with difficult to see pamors are older blades? Mostly very old Bali blades do not have high contrast pamor, it is often, maybe usually, quite dark, very little contrast, especially in keris that would have been the property of common people.

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11th July 2016, 11:33 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,746	There is a book with the same title. If anybody has read it, I'd be interested in an outline of the contents.

12th July 2016, 03:48 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,746	Yeah, it could well be, but at E65 and with these two names attached to it, I would expect some text of substance. Garret's "World of ---" was only a cat. too, but it remains probably the best single work on the Javanese Keris.

12th July 2016, 04:38 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,050	Perhaps. But unless i'm reading wrong it looks like it has 150 illustrations on 138 pages, so unless the illustrations are particularly small it doesn't seem to leave much room for text.

12th July 2016, 05:12 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,746	Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Another book of pretty pics we can live without.

12th July 2016, 11:43 PM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,221	Thanks for bringing this up. If these are old authentic keris, I would love to see them. 460 kms, probably much closer than most other forumites. But I am afraid I am not making the trip. Pretty high price for the catalogue BTW. Best regards, Willem

13th July 2016, 02:11 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,233	The exhibition is in the greater Hamburg area. So forumites visiting Hamburg should be able to make it! Regards, Kai

13th July 2016, 08:58 AM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I ordered the catalog and will report on it. One of the authors is well-known among European kris collectors. Regards

2nd August 2016, 05:59 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,580	Hello David, used only your comment to give a short insight from the content of the catalogue. And yes, you have been correct that there isn't much place for deep analysis but wasn't thought to give it I think. I only want to report what someone will find when he will order it. When I understand correct, it's available in german and english. The link to the flyer shows pictures from the exhibition rooms. Regards, Detlef

22nd August 2016, 09:39 PM	#13
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,580	Roland and I am have had last Sunday the trip to Hollenstedt. I only can second what Kai already has said. Günther Heckmann is a very nice and courteous person and we have had some very enjoyable and informative hours. In respect to ificah and the nice booklet for resonable price we don't have taken pictures but it's planed to bring the pictures from ificah online visible but this can take some time. What I can add is that the display is arranged with care and love to distraction. Very intersting!

29th August 2016, 09:51 AM	#14
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I received and read the booklet and basically concur with the positive evaluation made by Kai and Sajen. All the kris shown are of good to high/ exceptional quality, I feel that the estimated age of some blades may be overestimated but have no definite elements to prove it. The pictures are excellent but because of the black background, the pamor pattern of some blades is hardly visible. The pamor pattern of many blades (22 out of 31) is identified as "Balinese Ilining Warih (flowing water) equivalent to Javanese Beras Wutah" although they look quite different from each other. This terminology was also used in the book from Neka but I am not sure that it is correct, other opinions would be welcome. Some Balinese kris terms used (type of hilts, etc.) are not standard. Regards

29th August 2016, 01:28 PM	#15
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,746	Jean, if this book says that ilining warih is equivalent (ie, the same as) beras wutah, they are wrong. Sorry, but they misunderstand. Beras wutah (wos wutah, wusing wutah --- and a number of other spelling variations) is the major random pamor pattern:- you take the material, fold and weld a few times, forge the keris, carve: job done. Result:- random pamor:- beras wutah. However, that random pamor has a number of variations in form, so we can have different wos wutah motifs; this is so in Javanese wos wutah and also in Balinese wos wutah. The text in "Keris Bali Bersejarah" was written by Basuki Teguh Yuwono, a young Javanese gentleman who is a product of the Central Javanese keris school of Solo, and this background shines through consistently in his text. On pages 97 & 98 of "Keris Bali ---" there are photos of various random pamor motifs. These pamors are all named as Wusing Wutah (ie, beras wutah, wos wutah), but then the motif variation is named, and ilining warih is one of these beras wutah motif variations, along with ngulit semangka, pulo tirto. gedhegan, gedhegan bulat, semangka wengkon, ngintip, wengkon. So ilining warih is definitely not equivalent to beras wutah, it is motif variation of beras wutah. We can find exactly the same thing in Jawa. Strictly speaking the pamor motif should be named as "Beras Wutah, ilining warih", but who is so tightly controlled in terminology all the time? Not me, that's for sure, so mostly we just use the name of the motif variation, same as if we are talking about a motor vehicle, we don't always say "Ford Mustang", mostly we just say "Mustang":- everybody knows its a Ford. Re the pamor being difficult to see. Is it possible that these blades with difficult to see pamors are older blades? Mostly very old Bali blades do not have high contrast pamor, it is often, maybe usually, quite dark, very little contrast, especially in keris that would have been the property of common people.