Unknown sword! Possibly Sumatran Battak with Pamor?

A. G. Maisey · 13th October 2013, 11:57 AM

I don't have much to add to what has already been said, except that I can possibly be a little more definite about what I say.

This is a Javanese pedang blade, close examination will show that it predates 1850, the dress will be found to be from Javanese sandalwood (unscented). The style of dress is popular in Central Jawa, especially Solo.

It is important to understand that for the Javanese people, the spiritual value of any item of tosan aji is contained in the blade, not in the dress. For a collector of tosan aji the items of dress, hilt, scabbard etc., can certainly have a value when they are old or antique, most particularly when they are also of good quality, but very often the old Javanese weapons actually used in war lack their scabbards, and the hilts are frequently very utilitarian. So, what has happened is that old blades were frequently re-dressed in plain good quality wooden dress, or as often happened when pedang were still sometimes worn as items of dress in parades & etc., they were re-dressed in gold or silver.

Then there is the fact that many families have inherited weapons that they wish to keep and as a mark of respect they will re-dress the blade in a simple style to replace old and damaged original dress.

The hilt and scabbard that have been fitted to this blade appear to be of quite nice quality, whether the quality is as good as it appears to be will depend very largely upon two things:- firstly, is the scabbard carved from an unjointed piece of wood, that is, is there no join along the edges of the scabbard, and secondly, does the fit and finish give evidence of careful craftsmanship.

As Detlef has advised, the oil will be keris oil. I strongly recommend that the oil that originates in Indonesia not be used, as this has a coconut oil base that is not particularly wonderful for long term storage. It is far better to make your own oil using sandalwood or some other fragrance, such as jasmine and a base of medicinal paraffin. If oil is used, it will eventually stain the scabbard, so it is best not to store the oiled blade in the scabbard but to wrap it in plastic after oiling and store it out of the scabbard.

This is actually a pretty nice pedang.

kronckew · 13th October 2013, 04:26 PM

(
medicinal paraffin = mineral oil = unscented baby oil. (see again AGM's recipe in the other linked post)

of course if you are going to scent it, no need to hunt for the illusive unscented baby oil. the scented one is just fine if you add essential flower oils

)

i recently received a pair of swords from the phillipenes that were covered in coconut oil & wrapped in plastic, i initially thought it was vaseline, so i removed it and substituted a nicely anise scented mineral oil based multi-purpose product invented by the germans in the latter 19th century for steel, wood, leather preservation and cleaning... it even can be used as a wound antiseptic, it's anti-fungal and antibacterial. forget gurkhas feeling your shoe laces. they could tell by smell long before...

i hope the spirits of the 2 blades like it.

drac2k · 13th October 2013, 07:00 PM

Any chance one might get the recipe ?????

A. G. Maisey · 13th October 2013, 09:27 PM

In Australia medicinal paraffin is also sold as medicinal paraffin, which it seems is a laxative.

I'm pretty sure I've given this recipe here before, but to save looking:-

50% medicinal parafin, 45% sandalwood oil, 5% kenanga oil. Proportions are not critical.

I use a German synthetic sandalwood oil, and natural kenanga oil. Its probably impossible to buy kenanga oil outside of Indonesia. However, it is quite acceptable to use other oils to give the perfume --- jasmine, white rose, rose etc., etc. Main thing is that it is a pleasing smell. In Jawa sandalwood is pretty wide spread in its use, but sandalwood has a lot of variations, and they all smell different.

Kenanga oil is related to, but is not, ylang-ylang. I think , from memory, that kenanga is from the young flower, ylang-ylang is from the mature flower.

Light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil, also works well as a base.

kronckew · 14th October 2013, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...

I'm pretty sure I've given this recipe here before, but to save looking:-

...

i linked to the oil thread you posted in, in my post 3 above. which contains additional discussion.

David · 14th October 2013, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Its probably impossible to buy kenanga oil outside of Indonesia.

AFAIK kenanga oil is also spelled "cananga". If you do a google search for this oil you will most certainly find it for sale in the US and Canada at fairly reasonable prices. Real essential sandalwood oil has become ridiculously expensive as it becomes rarer so i fully understand Alan using a synthetic here.

A. G. Maisey · 14th October 2013, 04:29 AM

Not only Alan, David, but everybody I have ever known in Jawa has used and uses synthetic sandalwood oil.

I was given the original recipe by the grandson of a famous m'ranggi back about 1977, at that time the grandson was about 35-40. He told me what to buy and where to buy it, and also told me that his grandfather used the same oils.

Apparently you can buy genuine sandalwood oil in some places in the Eastern Islands at reasonable prices, but in the places I go to I've never seen it, and would not know where to buy it.

David, that "cananga" oil that you see advertised might be ylang-ylang. In a local health food store I saw some small bottles of "canaga", and it definitely was not the kenanga that I use, additionally many years ago a friend who lives in Detroit sent me a tiny amount of "cananga" to check if it was the same as mine, it wasn't, but my daughter-in-law reckoned it was poor quality ylang-ylang.

Genuine natural kenanga --- or kenongo --- oil has very sharp piercing smell, almost takes your breath away and makes you want to sneeze. It is not really a very pleasant smell, the least you could say about it is that it is sharp.

William.m · 16th October 2013, 10:34 AM

Hi all,

I am deeply awed by the amount of discussion and advice on this thread. Thank you all very much for your contributions! I had no idea that the blade could be so old, this is wonderful as I was already very fond of this sword, and now even more so!

I spent the weekend searching my towns shops for oils but was not able to find anything suitable. I think I will just purchase the oils from the internet, following the recipe of 50% mineral oil, 45% synthetic sandalwood oil, 5% Jasmine oil.

Thanks all!

William

13th October 2013, 04:26 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,154	( medicinal paraffin = mineral oil = unscented baby oil. (see again AGM's recipe in the other linked post) of course if you are going to scent it, no need to hunt for the illusive unscented baby oil. the scented one is just fine if you add essential flower oils ) i recently received a pair of swords from the phillipenes that were covered in coconut oil & wrapped in plastic, i initially thought it was vaseline, so i removed it and substituted a nicely anise scented mineral oil based multi-purpose product invented by the germans in the latter 19th century for steel, wood, leather preservation and cleaning... it even can be used as a wound antiseptic, it's anti-fungal and antibacterial. forget gurkhas feeling your shoe laces. they could tell by smell long before... i hope the spirits of the 2 blades like it. Last edited by kronckew; 13th October 2013 at 04:43 PM.

13th October 2013, 11:57 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,750	I don't have much to add to what has already been said, except that I can possibly be a little more definite about what I say. This is a Javanese pedang blade, close examination will show that it predates 1850, the dress will be found to be from Javanese sandalwood (unscented). The style of dress is popular in Central Jawa, especially Solo. It is important to understand that for the Javanese people, the spiritual value of any item of tosan aji is contained in the blade, not in the dress. For a collector of tosan aji the items of dress, hilt, scabbard etc., can certainly have a value when they are old or antique, most particularly when they are also of good quality, but very often the old Javanese weapons actually used in war lack their scabbards, and the hilts are frequently very utilitarian. So, what has happened is that old blades were frequently re-dressed in plain good quality wooden dress, or as often happened when pedang were still sometimes worn as items of dress in parades & etc., they were re-dressed in gold or silver. Then there is the fact that many families have inherited weapons that they wish to keep and as a mark of respect they will re-dress the blade in a simple style to replace old and damaged original dress. The hilt and scabbard that have been fitted to this blade appear to be of quite nice quality, whether the quality is as good as it appears to be will depend very largely upon two things:- firstly, is the scabbard carved from an unjointed piece of wood, that is, is there no join along the edges of the scabbard, and secondly, does the fit and finish give evidence of careful craftsmanship. As Detlef has advised, the oil will be keris oil. I strongly recommend that the oil that originates in Indonesia not be used, as this has a coconut oil base that is not particularly wonderful for long term storage. It is far better to make your own oil using sandalwood or some other fragrance, such as jasmine and a base of medicinal paraffin. If oil is used, it will eventually stain the scabbard, so it is best not to store the oiled blade in the scabbard but to wrap it in plastic after oiling and store it out of the scabbard. This is actually a pretty nice pedang.

13th October 2013, 07:00 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,192	Any chance one might get the recipe ?????

13th October 2013, 09:27 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,750	In Australia medicinal paraffin is also sold as medicinal paraffin, which it seems is a laxative. I'm pretty sure I've given this recipe here before, but to save looking:- 50% medicinal parafin, 45% sandalwood oil, 5% kenanga oil. Proportions are not critical. I use a German synthetic sandalwood oil, and natural kenanga oil. Its probably impossible to buy kenanga oil outside of Indonesia. However, it is quite acceptable to use other oils to give the perfume --- jasmine, white rose, rose etc., etc. Main thing is that it is a pleasing smell. In Jawa sandalwood is pretty wide spread in its use, but sandalwood has a lot of variations, and they all smell different. Kenanga oil is related to, but is not, ylang-ylang. I think , from memory, that kenanga is from the young flower, ylang-ylang is from the mature flower. Light machine oil, such as sewing machine oil, also works well as a base.

14th October 2013, 04:29 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,750	Not only Alan, David, but everybody I have ever known in Jawa has used and uses synthetic sandalwood oil. I was given the original recipe by the grandson of a famous m'ranggi back about 1977, at that time the grandson was about 35-40. He told me what to buy and where to buy it, and also told me that his grandfather used the same oils. Apparently you can buy genuine sandalwood oil in some places in the Eastern Islands at reasonable prices, but in the places I go to I've never seen it, and would not know where to buy it. David, that "cananga" oil that you see advertised might be ylang-ylang. In a local health food store I saw some small bottles of "canaga", and it definitely was not the kenanga that I use, additionally many years ago a friend who lives in Detroit sent me a tiny amount of "cananga" to check if it was the same as mine, it wasn't, but my daughter-in-law reckoned it was poor quality ylang-ylang. Genuine natural kenanga --- or kenongo --- oil has very sharp piercing smell, almost takes your breath away and makes you want to sneeze. It is not really a very pleasant smell, the least you could say about it is that it is sharp.

16th October 2013, 10:34 AM	#8
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hi all, I am deeply awed by the amount of discussion and advice on this thread. Thank you all very much for your contributions! I had no idea that the blade could be so old, this is wonderful as I was already very fond of this sword, and now even more so! I spent the weekend searching my towns shops for oils but was not able to find anything suitable. I think I will just purchase the oils from the internet, following the recipe of 50% mineral oil, 45% synthetic sandalwood oil, 5% Jasmine oil. Thanks all! William