Old Dutch hanger

Jim McDougall · 26th March 2010, 11:12 PM

Hi Mark,
Im really glad you posted this as it is truly an intriguing piece, and I love a good mystery!

I have been looking through some things and can offer the following as my own theory, which may be speculative, but until we hear from the experts, what I have found might serve as an operative theory.

As you have noted, the hilt is very similar to the ivory hilt example in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" (p.68) and shown as Dutch c.1660. In the same article there are a couple of other examples of these elaborate theme type hilts of Holland and North Italy of 17th century. The ivory example shown seems to have a somewhat similar lion type head but with human limbs and appears to be in the same semi-seated stance as your example. It is important to note that Ceylon was occupied by the Dutch VOC (=Vereenigde Oost Indische Compagnie) from about 1602 until taken over by British East India Co. in 1796.
The lionhead is significant to the Ceylonese (Sinhalese, sinha=lion) as their ancestry is from Prince Vijaya, and they consider themselves the 'lion people'.
This theme is seen on the well known Sinhalese sword, the kastane, and its characteristic lionhead pommel. The other features often seen are makara, semiaquatic beasts of Hindu/Buddhist mythology. The wings seen in the carving here might relate to either the garuda, or perhaps the kinnara (half man half bird).
What is most interesting is that this lionhead seems to resemble the lionhead pommels on British swords of 1770's to that of the British lionhead infantry officers sword of M1803, with the flowing mane, though closely flattened.
This does not appear to be a maneless lion.

From the 17th century there was a great deal of cross cultural diffusion in the decoration on swords, and there are Dutch swords with kastane type lionheads of 18th century, while clearly the Sinhalese craftsmen adopted themes from the European swords. Much of this diffusion related directly with the traders and diplomatic relations with the native people.

Mark, you have really carried into a most important element of research that has long been championed by Olikara and Jens, that of the importance of old coins as applied to research on weapons. Your research on these old VOC coins is excellent, and I followed your lead to the coin known as the 'dump'.

On the 1783 VOC one stuiver coin, there are two four dot rosettes in this exact configuration, and interestingly on the reverse with the date are two voluted characters which resemble perhaps Sinhalese or Tamil alphabet.
On this hilt, the two opposed figures seem temptingly similar allowing for artistic embellishment.

The adoption of simplistic symbolism from trade sword blade markings is well known and in this case, perhaps the marking from this stuiver coin, may have been presumed to imbue talismanic or amuletic power in the temporal sense by native craftsmen. The British style appearance of the lionhead may suggest this could be the work of a native carver in Ceylon about the time of the British takeover. The rosette marking may have been applied by a native craftsman on the earlier courtsword blade, and here it has been mounted on a wood carved hilt in that time.

Attached are the 1783-1793 Ceylon Dutch VOC one stuiver 'dump' coin (note four dot 'rosettes' )a VOC metal plate with similar markings.

The brown varnish on the blade may well be exactly that, as this was often applied to edged weapons in old collections.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 27th March 2010, 02:50 AM

Jim, once again, you astound me! I have been searching for the Dutch coin that supposedly bore the 4 dot pattern, but had never conclusively found it. I mentioned it just in case someone else was familiar. Now, here you present it to me! Thank you so much for this vital piece of the puzzle now filled. Your logic in this sword's history feels dead-on, even with the odd winded-symbol resembling stylized version on the same coin. So perhaps as the British were taking over, the Singhalese were incorporating their stylized lion pattern when they made this sword, but kept the original marking that pre-dated the Dutch coin by many centuries. Wow! That bit of information was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks. My one final question might be as to whether this sword was made for a Westerner in the EIC or for the local populace? That one we may never know.

Jim McDougall · 27th March 2010, 06:55 AM

Hi Mark,
Thank you for the kind words, and as I noted, I was pretty much following your lead, and since I had heard of these coins before just revisited that data. It was great to find that exact pattern on the coin....I recall in some earlier discussion on smallswords there was a star type configuration on some Dutch sword blades in this same manner. I am wondering if the native armourers were simply applying this mark in the same sense they might have perceived those.
It seems that these type swords were produced as early as the previous century for merchants and traders as essentially status symbols, although they were obviously with ivory, horn and in some cases possibly crystal. Some of these decorative swords were probably diplomatic gifts, and there were makers in the central regions who produced lavish weapons for the Kandy rulers in earlier times.

Since this is carved wood, I would suspect it is an item produced in about the period suggested c.1800-20 as British rule took over, and probably intended for trade market. Carved wood seems to suggest native production although unusual for weapons as an accoutrement in official use. In Southern India after the defeat of Tipu Sultan in 1799, there was brisk production of weapons produced in 'Tipu's Mysori style compounded with British form intended for British officers and presentations to local officials and military. Some of these had brass hilts with Tipu style features along with the British military M1796 pattern.
Perhaps this type circumstance existed in Ceylon in the same way.

It would really be interesting to hear opinions from Anandalal, Olikara and Cornelis with thier direct connections to this historical environment.
In any case, always fun to work with you on these mysteries

All the best,
Jim

cornelistromp · 27th March 2010, 09:40 AM

HI,
there was a development in Holland of a very interesting type of cross hilts in the middle of the 17thC the so called "leeuwengevesten"or lionhilt.
on those Hilts the Lion takes most of the space of the hilt.
such a hilt can be seen on the town guard of Hoorn painting of Jan Albertsz. Rotius made in 1655.
In the same time Golden Lion hilts were given to fleet owners for their duties by the VOC of Amsterdam. unfortunately we only know them now from paintings and no existing sample is known.

later the German sculper Goottfried Leygebe made also a lionhilt however the development on Holland was before his work.

now the sword of mark is a wooden? carving probably Dutch and made in one of its colonies or on the way to one of them.
the original of this wooden hilt, where a lion is attacked by four dogs is the same as on the painting of Rotius, in casted silver is laying in the tower of London.IX-849.

Mark, your sword is an interesting piece of Dutch history, I would love to have one like this.

best regards from Holland

Jim McDougall · 27th March 2010, 02:42 PM

Excellent!!! There we have it!
Cornelis thank you so much for coming in on this, and I was sure you have have some well placed insight into a weapon of this intriguing nature with such apparantly profound Dutch history connection.
With this information it does seem that this cross hilt weapon was most likely contemporary with the type Mark has noted in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" (c.1660) and probably carved in the colonies.
The connection to the four dot configuration on the blade, while seen on the one stuiver coins of the latter part of the 18th century, while associating this sword with the VOC sphere, cannot be construed as setting the date of the weapon in that period as this symbolic arrangement must have been present earlier.

Cornelis, do you have thoughts or information on what the four dot rosette might signify?

Thank you again for this information, and it is truly exciting to see yet another 'mystery' sword turn out to be an important item of this fascinating part of Dutch history.

All very best regards,
Jim

cornelistromp · 27th March 2010, 07:59 PM

Hi Jim,

my pleasure

I think the dots only represent "the cross", usually on voc swords the date is placed between 2 of those dot crosses.

best regards

M ELEY · 27th March 2010, 10:14 PM

A profound 'thank you', Cornelis and Jim for your valuable input on this sword. Its origin has been troubling me for over a decade and now I can finally see a clear picture of its history. Of course, I couldn't be more happier, as a colony piece such as this very likely could have seen sea service. Again, I can't thank you enough for solving this mystery!
Cheers!
Mark

26th March 2010, 11:12 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Mark, Im really glad you posted this as it is truly an intriguing piece, and I love a good mystery! I have been looking through some things and can offer the following as my own theory, which may be speculative, but until we hear from the experts, what I have found might serve as an operative theory. As you have noted, the hilt is very similar to the ivory hilt example in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" (p.68) and shown as Dutch c.1660. In the same article there are a couple of other examples of these elaborate theme type hilts of Holland and North Italy of 17th century. The ivory example shown seems to have a somewhat similar lion type head but with human limbs and appears to be in the same semi-seated stance as your example. It is important to note that Ceylon was occupied by the Dutch VOC (=Vereenigde Oost Indische Compagnie) from about 1602 until taken over by British East India Co. in 1796. The lionhead is significant to the Ceylonese (Sinhalese, sinha=lion) as their ancestry is from Prince Vijaya, and they consider themselves the 'lion people'. This theme is seen on the well known Sinhalese sword, the kastane, and its characteristic lionhead pommel. The other features often seen are makara, semiaquatic beasts of Hindu/Buddhist mythology. The wings seen in the carving here might relate to either the garuda, or perhaps the kinnara (half man half bird). What is most interesting is that this lionhead seems to resemble the lionhead pommels on British swords of 1770's to that of the British lionhead infantry officers sword of M1803, with the flowing mane, though closely flattened. This does not appear to be a maneless lion. From the 17th century there was a great deal of cross cultural diffusion in the decoration on swords, and there are Dutch swords with kastane type lionheads of 18th century, while clearly the Sinhalese craftsmen adopted themes from the European swords. Much of this diffusion related directly with the traders and diplomatic relations with the native people. Mark, you have really carried into a most important element of research that has long been championed by Olikara and Jens, that of the importance of old coins as applied to research on weapons. Your research on these old VOC coins is excellent, and I followed your lead to the coin known as the 'dump'. On the 1783 VOC one stuiver coin, there are two four dot rosettes in this exact configuration, and interestingly on the reverse with the date are two voluted characters which resemble perhaps Sinhalese or Tamil alphabet. On this hilt, the two opposed figures seem temptingly similar allowing for artistic embellishment. The adoption of simplistic symbolism from trade sword blade markings is well known and in this case, perhaps the marking from this stuiver coin, may have been presumed to imbue talismanic or amuletic power in the temporal sense by native craftsmen. The British style appearance of the lionhead may suggest this could be the work of a native carver in Ceylon about the time of the British takeover. The rosette marking may have been applied by a native craftsman on the earlier courtsword blade, and here it has been mounted on a wood carved hilt in that time. Attached are the 1783-1793 Ceylon Dutch VOC one stuiver 'dump' coin (note four dot 'rosettes' )a VOC metal plate with similar markings. The brown varnish on the blade may well be exactly that, as this was often applied to edged weapons in old collections. All the best, Jim Attached Images

27th March 2010, 09:40 AM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	lion hilt HI, there was a development in Holland of a very interesting type of cross hilts in the middle of the 17thC the so called "leeuwengevesten"or lionhilt. on those Hilts the Lion takes most of the space of the hilt. such a hilt can be seen on the town guard of Hoorn painting of Jan Albertsz. Rotius made in 1655. In the same time Golden Lion hilts were given to fleet owners for their duties by the VOC of Amsterdam. unfortunately we only know them now from paintings and no existing sample is known. later the German sculper Goottfried Leygebe made also a lionhilt however the development on Holland was before his work. now the sword of mark is a wooden? carving probably Dutch and made in one of its colonies or on the way to one of them. the original of this wooden hilt, where a lion is attacked by four dogs is the same as on the painting of Rotius, in casted silver is laying in the tower of London.IX-849. Mark, your sword is an interesting piece of Dutch history, I would love to have one like this. best regards from Holland Attached Images

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27th March 2010, 02:50 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Jim, once again, you astound me! I have been searching for the Dutch coin that supposedly bore the 4 dot pattern, but had never conclusively found it. I mentioned it just in case someone else was familiar. Now, here you present it to me! Thank you so much for this vital piece of the puzzle now filled. Your logic in this sword's history feels dead-on, even with the odd winded-symbol resembling stylized version on the same coin. So perhaps as the British were taking over, the Singhalese were incorporating their stylized lion pattern when they made this sword, but kept the original marking that pre-dated the Dutch coin by many centuries. Wow! That bit of information was exactly what I was looking for! Thanks. My one final question might be as to whether this sword was made for a Westerner in the EIC or for the local populace? That one we may never know.

27th March 2010, 06:55 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Mark, Thank you for the kind words, and as I noted, I was pretty much following your lead, and since I had heard of these coins before just revisited that data. It was great to find that exact pattern on the coin....I recall in some earlier discussion on smallswords there was a star type configuration on some Dutch sword blades in this same manner. I am wondering if the native armourers were simply applying this mark in the same sense they might have perceived those. It seems that these type swords were produced as early as the previous century for merchants and traders as essentially status symbols, although they were obviously with ivory, horn and in some cases possibly crystal. Some of these decorative swords were probably diplomatic gifts, and there were makers in the central regions who produced lavish weapons for the Kandy rulers in earlier times. Since this is carved wood, I would suspect it is an item produced in about the period suggested c.1800-20 as British rule took over, and probably intended for trade market. Carved wood seems to suggest native production although unusual for weapons as an accoutrement in official use. In Southern India after the defeat of Tipu Sultan in 1799, there was brisk production of weapons produced in 'Tipu's Mysori style compounded with British form intended for British officers and presentations to local officials and military. Some of these had brass hilts with Tipu style features along with the British military M1796 pattern. Perhaps this type circumstance existed in Ceylon in the same way. It would really be interesting to hear opinions from Anandalal, Olikara and Cornelis with thier direct connections to this historical environment. In any case, always fun to work with you on these mysteries All the best, Jim

27th March 2010, 02:42 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Excellent!!! There we have it! Cornelis thank you so much for coming in on this, and I was sure you have have some well placed insight into a weapon of this intriguing nature with such apparantly profound Dutch history connection. With this information it does seem that this cross hilt weapon was most likely contemporary with the type Mark has noted in "Swords and Hilt Weapons" (c.1660) and probably carved in the colonies. The connection to the four dot configuration on the blade, while seen on the one stuiver coins of the latter part of the 18th century, while associating this sword with the VOC sphere, cannot be construed as setting the date of the weapon in that period as this symbolic arrangement must have been present earlier. Cornelis, do you have thoughts or information on what the four dot rosette might signify? Thank you again for this information, and it is truly exciting to see yet another 'mystery' sword turn out to be an important item of this fascinating part of Dutch history. All very best regards, Jim

27th March 2010, 07:59 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Jim, my pleasure I think the dots only represent "the cross", usually on voc swords the date is placed between 2 of those dot crosses. best regards

27th March 2010, 10:14 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	A profound 'thank you', Cornelis and Jim for your valuable input on this sword. Its origin has been troubling me for over a decade and now I can finally see a clear picture of its history. Of course, I couldn't be more happier, as a colony piece such as this very likely could have seen sea service. Again, I can't thank you enough for solving this mystery! Cheers! Mark