WHICH SUNDANG?

ganjawulung · 20th March 2010, 03:22 PM

Dear Alan,
I've tried to watch this suspicious blade more carefully. And the whole impressions is that this blade doesn't seem completely new, although it is possible that the blade is forged from older metal material, and not todays material. That is why, my first impression to see this blade as old blade. The bending blade probably was quenched, from above the sor-soran until the tip of the blade -- it is the type of old technique of keris making. The Quenching technique ("disepuh"). (The upper blade become more corroded than the lower).

At a glance, the overall shape is as the shape of sundang. Type of "keris pedang", combination form of keris and pedang. The maker of the blade, was probably had intention to make sundang, either Melayu or Moro -- seen from the very "steeply angled gandhik". Of course, this is not the style of javanese keris making. Also the awkward form of "sirah cecak". More "sundang" style than javanese keris style...

But if you watch more carefully the details -- such as, the slim sekar kacang -- it remind me the style of older Maduran kerises (Sumolo?), with detail of "jenggot" above the sekar kacang...

Regarding the pamor of "adeg siji", or you probably regard as "sada sak ler", it could be more eastern Jawa, than central. The size of the blade, also more east jawa -- tends bigger than central jawa kerises. (Later I will post pictures for comparison, between older Maduran keris and this blade. Especially we may compare the forms of details in the sor-soran).

Commercially motivated keris? It is just IMHO...

This is just my "vague" response, as I am not an expert...

Thanks, a lot

GANJAWULUNG

David · 20th March 2010, 03:56 PM

Interestingly, Maurice has recently posted this sundang on the main forum with similiar greneng. Not sure where this one is from either, though Malay origin is being suggested on that thread.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11654

ganjawulung · 21st March 2010, 02:07 AM

Yes, interesting David,
With nine circular in the greneng section, and three in the sekar kacang part. And this picture below, just for comparing the ricikan (details) in the gandhik part -- between older Maduran keris and this suspicious sundang...

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung · 21st March 2010, 02:16 AM

And the whole view, for size comparison. Maduran keris with eastern Jawa scabbard (without pendhok). I found this keris as it is. I didn't change the scabbard and the handle... The size is 42 cm without pesi (comparing to 52 the sundang). Older Maduran, and Eastern Jawa tends bigger in size than the central Jawa kerises. Eastern Jawa -- could means the Madurese who stayed in northern part of East Jawa, just across Madura island...

GANJAWULUNG

PenangsangII · 22nd March 2010, 06:02 AM

Regarding Alan's question on what's holding the ganja and the blade in place.... the ganja was drilled to tight fit pesi's size, and heated. Once heated, the hole became softer and flexible, so its fitted nicely when cold though normally a little gap can be seen

PenangsangII · 22nd March 2010, 06:05 AM

And though I cant be sure that my opinion is correct, the mismatched blade and dress are normally attributed to Kalimantan....

A. G. Maisey · 22nd March 2010, 06:38 AM

Penangsan, I do understand shrink fitting and have used it myself in non-keris related things.

Please note:- this is a square pesi.

Can you please advise the localities where shrink fitting of a ganja is normally carried out. I am only familar with two usual methods:- the keyway and the crimp. I doubt that I have seen a blade where the ganja was shrink fitted.

Is this a common method of fitting the ganja in Moro type keris?

20th March 2010, 03:56 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Interestingly, Maurice has recently posted this sundang on the main forum with similiar greneng. Not sure where this one is from either, though Malay origin is being suggested on that thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11654 Attached Images

21st March 2010, 02:07 AM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Yes, interesting David, With nine circular in the greneng section, and three in the sekar kacang part. And this picture below, just for comparing the ricikan (details) in the gandhik part -- between older Maduran keris and this suspicious sundang... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

21st March 2010, 02:16 AM	#4
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	And the whole view, for size comparison. Maduran keris with eastern Jawa scabbard (without pendhok). I found this keris as it is. I didn't change the scabbard and the handle... The size is 42 cm without pesi (comparing to 52 the sundang). Older Maduran, and Eastern Jawa tends bigger in size than the central Jawa kerises. Eastern Jawa -- could means the Madurese who stayed in northern part of East Jawa, just across Madura island... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

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20th March 2010, 03:22 PM	#1
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Dear Alan, I've tried to watch this suspicious blade more carefully. And the whole impressions is that this blade doesn't seem completely new, although it is possible that the blade is forged from older metal material, and not todays material. That is why, my first impression to see this blade as old blade. The bending blade probably was quenched, from above the sor-soran until the tip of the blade -- it is the type of old technique of keris making. The Quenching technique ("disepuh"). (The upper blade become more corroded than the lower). At a glance, the overall shape is as the shape of sundang. Type of "keris pedang", combination form of keris and pedang. The maker of the blade, was probably had intention to make sundang, either Melayu or Moro -- seen from the very "steeply angled gandhik". Of course, this is not the style of javanese keris making. Also the awkward form of "sirah cecak". More "sundang" style than javanese keris style... But if you watch more carefully the details -- such as, the slim sekar kacang -- it remind me the style of older Maduran kerises (Sumolo?), with detail of "jenggot" above the sekar kacang... Regarding the pamor of "adeg siji", or you probably regard as "sada sak ler", it could be more eastern Jawa, than central. The size of the blade, also more east jawa -- tends bigger than central jawa kerises. (Later I will post pictures for comparison, between older Maduran keris and this blade. Especially we may compare the forms of details in the sor-soran). Commercially motivated keris? It is just IMHO... This is just my "vague" response, as I am not an expert... Thanks, a lot GANJAWULUNG

22nd March 2010, 06:02 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Regarding Alan's question on what's holding the ganja and the blade in place.... the ganja was drilled to tight fit pesi's size, and heated. Once heated, the hole became softer and flexible, so its fitted nicely when cold though normally a little gap can be seen

22nd March 2010, 06:05 AM	#6
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	And though I cant be sure that my opinion is correct, the mismatched blade and dress are normally attributed to Kalimantan....

22nd March 2010, 06:38 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Penangsan, I do understand shrink fitting and have used it myself in non-keris related things. Please note:- this is a square pesi. Can you please advise the localities where shrink fitting of a ganja is normally carried out. I am only familar with two usual methods:- the keyway and the crimp. I doubt that I have seen a blade where the ganja was shrink fitted. Is this a common method of fitting the ganja in Moro type keris?