Malay (?) keris from Ebay

Gustav · 14th March 2010, 12:22 PM

just for comparison.

David · 14th March 2010, 06:44 PM

Thank you Alan and Kai Wee for your responses. Terengganu is where i had thought this keris was from, but when Alan expressed that respected people on this subject had suggested to him that this kind of topographic relief pamor is virtually unknown from this area it raised a serious question with me about it's origin. Ultimately where it is from would not effect my liking for this keris, but it is an important piece of information that i would like to have correct about any keris i own if possible.

Gustav · 14th March 2010, 07:32 PM

File marks seem also to be not unusual, becouse of the resharpening praktice.

David · 14th March 2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

File marks seem also to be not unusual, becouse of the resharpening praktice.

I am not aware of any resharpening practice. Can you elaborate?

Gustav · 15th March 2010, 09:54 AM

As I understand it, in bugis influenced regions some value is put also on the sharpness of the edges, so the blades were sometimes resharpened. I mean, I can see some resharpening (or file) work also on your blade.

Anybody please correct me, if this is wrong.

Gustav · 15th March 2010, 11:45 PM

Has anybody seen this one alive? Is this a documentated sundang? If yes, what about the age of fittings? It seems to have a sheath mouth from other material.

The other one (excuse me please for using your picture, VVV) also.

PenangsangII · 17th March 2010, 11:40 AM

IMHO, Gustav's keris blade is recent Maduran made dressed in antique hulu, and repaired sheath - classic case of a seller meant to jack up his commodity. David's blade also look quite recent, I think peninsula made and aged less than 50 yrs.... but then its only an opinion....

David · 16th March 2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

As I understand it, in bugis influenced regions some value is put also on the sharpness of the edges, so the blades were sometimes resharpened. I mean, I can see some resharpening (or file) work also on your blade.

Anybody please correct me, if this is wrong.

I could be wrong, but i think any file marks that may be visible were part of the origin shaping of this keris.

Gustav · 16th March 2010, 09:37 AM

You are most probably wright, David.

The edges on greneng and kembang kacang are not really worn; this keris never needed resharpening, becouse it's probably very near to the original condition. What was my point, is the possibility of a visible file work on a non-Madura piece.

I ask me, if the sheath of the "initial" keris, if it's something older, would be not to small for any sundang at the mouth (maybe not for a sundang patrem

), the keris in it should be not to large (32,3 cm length from Ebay description).

Of course the sheath could be reshaped at the mouth and shortened (it would be the answer for the possibly new buntut), and this must leave signs. Are they visible on this sheath?

I suppose, it would be less complicated to make a new sheath then recarve a sundang sheath to this size.

14th March 2010, 12:22 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	just for comparison. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 14th March 2010 at 08:06 PM.

14th March 2010, 07:32 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	File marks seem also to be not unusual, becouse of the resharpening praktice. Last edited by Gustav; 14th March 2010 at 08:24 PM.

15th March 2010, 11:45 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Has anybody seen this one alive? Is this a documentated sundang? If yes, what about the age of fittings? It seems to have a sheath mouth from other material. The other one (excuse me please for using your picture, VVV) also. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 16th March 2010 at 12:14 AM.

16th March 2010, 09:37 AM	#9
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	You are most probably wright, David. The edges on greneng and kembang kacang are not really worn; this keris never needed resharpening, becouse it's probably very near to the original condition. What was my point, is the possibility of a visible file work on a non-Madura piece. I ask me, if the sheath of the "initial" keris, if it's something older, would be not to small for any sundang at the mouth (maybe not for a sundang patrem ), the keris in it should be not to large (32,3 cm length from Ebay description). Of course the sheath could be reshaped at the mouth and shortened (it would be the answer for the possibly new buntut), and this must leave signs. Are they visible on this sheath? I suppose, it would be less complicated to make a new sheath then recarve a sundang sheath to this size. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 17th March 2010 at 09:37 AM.

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14th March 2010, 06:44 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thank you Alan and Kai Wee for your responses. Terengganu is where i had thought this keris was from, but when Alan expressed that respected people on this subject had suggested to him that this kind of topographic relief pamor is virtually unknown from this area it raised a serious question with me about it's origin. Ultimately where it is from would not effect my liking for this keris, but it is an important piece of information that i would like to have correct about any keris i own if possible.

15th March 2010, 09:54 AM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	As I understand it, in bugis influenced regions some value is put also on the sharpness of the edges, so the blades were sometimes resharpened. I mean, I can see some resharpening (or file) work also on your blade. Anybody please correct me, if this is wrong.

17th March 2010, 11:40 AM	#7
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	IMHO, Gustav's keris blade is recent Maduran made dressed in antique hulu, and repaired sheath - classic case of a seller meant to jack up his commodity. David's blade also look quite recent, I think peninsula made and aged less than 50 yrs.... but then its only an opinion....