Small Sumatra keris

Sajen · 15th February 2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

I think this a probably Northern Peninsular keris from Kedah, Perlis or North Perak. The characteristics are: The sampir looks like Riau one, and the "batang sarung" tapers a bit and the buntut is in the "Buntut Lipas" form and the hilt is Jawa Demam that is a bit like the Pattani Pekaka. Some keris from that region uses flat buntut as well. The tips of the sampir are normally triangular like a Terengganu one. However, if somebody choses to take a Riau keris and modify it into this form it nobody can really tell for sure.

I attached a picture of a keris from Pendang, Kedah that i grab from the net. Note the pendongkok looks very Sumatran, but this one is a typical type found on Northern Peninsular keris. The tips of the sampir are rather extreme.

Thank you Rasdan for your input. I have a similar keris to yours and the sampir of this one is very similar to my new one. So coming up the question in #1.
BTW, what do you think about the "original" pendokok?

Regards,

Detlef

BluErf · 16th February 2010, 01:36 AM

The "original" is quite unusual, but has Peninsula flavour, especially the petals. But as we move down the pendoko to the stem, it looks stranger and stranger.

Where did you get this pendoko?

I have a similar keris to Radan's example. Thought this was a Pattani "interpretation" of a Riau keris.

I have another Malay keris which we suspect to be from Kedah, Pahang or Perak. Ok it's a v large area, but it is really through a process of elimination that these states were left as the likely candidates for the keris.

As to Sajen's keris, I have mentioned that it is likely Riau, but this keris is one of those really grey ones. But looking at it again, it could very well be Terengganu. Some more pics to follow.

BluErf · 16th February 2010, 01:40 AM

A couple of Terengganu examples. Incidentally, both are small-sized, like Sajen's.

BluErf · 16th February 2010, 01:57 AM

Normally, how we differentiate Riau and Terengganu kerises are through the sheath, blade, hilt and pendoko. In this case, the blade and pendoko do not offer much ques since the former is a generic Bugis blade while the pendoko was not correct. The hilt form could also offer some clues, though a lot of times we tend not to look at it that much since hilts are most likely to be swapped, along with pendokos. So it is down to the sheath. The main differentiating factor between Terengganu and Riau is that the former tends to be more boxy, while the latter is more 'voluptuous', for a lack of better word. Sajen's keris is like somewhere in between. Material used may be a clue as well, with Terengganu sheaths sometimes using highly figured kemuning of ketengga wood not found in Riau/Sumatra, but again in this case, this is not so obvious.

AyAtOyOlLa · 16th February 2010, 04:16 AM

Wa

David · 16th February 2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyAtOyOlLa

Wa

Ummm....would you care to elaborate?

rasdan · 16th February 2010, 12:59 PM

Gotta add a bit more. Blu gotta point there. The wood grain on your first keris is rather rare for a Northern Peninsula (Kedah etc) keris. Most of them uses wood like your second keris and my example and also Blu's first example (nice keris Blu) - No or little chatoyance. So this may add to the possibility that this is from Riau as Blu had mentioned. But again, for the overall score i would guess that this is a Peninsula keris. (Alan would hate this sort of "guessing game" discussion - sorry Alan

)

I think I just learned a new thing here. I just remembered that i used to have a keris like your first example, but minus the wood grain. My guess is that it is from Perak. Unfortunately i cannot locate the photos. The folder is there, but theres no pics inside.

Your second example and Blu's is probably from Kedah area that is close to Kelantan and Thai border where their accent is closer to the Kelantanese accent. As you can see, in your first example the sampir and batang serunai is rather flat than your second example which is a bit rounded - very much like Kelantan/Pattani. But this is just my rookie guess, I could well be wrong.

Regarding the pendongkok in #1 and your replacement is no appropriate, i think a typical Peninsular Telur Ikan pendongkok or as in any of Blu's example would be nice.

I think your second example and Blu's first example is rather rare in form and i love it. Congrats guys..

Sajen · 16th February 2010, 10:55 PM

[QUOTE=BluErf]The "original" is quite unusual, but has Peninsula flavour, especially the petals. But as we move down the pendoko to the stem, it looks stranger and stranger.

Where did you get this pendoko?

Like Alam guessing before it's a Sumbawa pendokok, I get it with a Sumbawa keris, but it have been to small for the handle.

16th February 2010, 01:36 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	The "original" is quite unusual, but has Peninsula flavour, especially the petals. But as we move down the pendoko to the stem, it looks stranger and stranger. Where did you get this pendoko? I have a similar keris to Radan's example. Thought this was a Pattani "interpretation" of a Riau keris. I have another Malay keris which we suspect to be from Kedah, Pahang or Perak. Ok it's a v large area, but it is really through a process of elimination that these states were left as the likely candidates for the keris. As to Sajen's keris, I have mentioned that it is likely Riau, but this keris is one of those really grey ones. But looking at it again, it could very well be Terengganu. Some more pics to follow. Attached Images

16th February 2010, 01:40 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	A couple of Terengganu examples. Incidentally, both are small-sized, like Sajen's. Attached Images

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16th February 2010, 01:57 AM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Normally, how we differentiate Riau and Terengganu kerises are through the sheath, blade, hilt and pendoko. In this case, the blade and pendoko do not offer much ques since the former is a generic Bugis blade while the pendoko was not correct. The hilt form could also offer some clues, though a lot of times we tend not to look at it that much since hilts are most likely to be swapped, along with pendokos. So it is down to the sheath. The main differentiating factor between Terengganu and Riau is that the former tends to be more boxy, while the latter is more 'voluptuous', for a lack of better word. Sajen's keris is like somewhere in between. Material used may be a clue as well, with Terengganu sheaths sometimes using highly figured kemuning of ketengga wood not found in Riau/Sumatra, but again in this case, this is not so obvious.

16th February 2010, 04:16 AM	#5
AyAtOyOlLa Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7	Wa

16th February 2010, 12:59 PM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Gotta add a bit more. Blu gotta point there. The wood grain on your first keris is rather rare for a Northern Peninsula (Kedah etc) keris. Most of them uses wood like your second keris and my example and also Blu's first example (nice keris Blu) - No or little chatoyance. So this may add to the possibility that this is from Riau as Blu had mentioned. But again, for the overall score i would guess that this is a Peninsula keris. (Alan would hate this sort of "guessing game" discussion - sorry Alan ) I think I just learned a new thing here. I just remembered that i used to have a keris like your first example, but minus the wood grain. My guess is that it is from Perak. Unfortunately i cannot locate the photos. The folder is there, but theres no pics inside. Your second example and Blu's is probably from Kedah area that is close to Kelantan and Thai border where their accent is closer to the Kelantanese accent. As you can see, in your first example the sampir and batang serunai is rather flat than your second example which is a bit rounded - very much like Kelantan/Pattani. But this is just my rookie guess, I could well be wrong. Regarding the pendongkok in #1 and your replacement is no appropriate, i think a typical Peninsular Telur Ikan pendongkok or as in any of Blu's example would be nice. I think your second example and Blu's first example is rather rare in form and i love it. Congrats guys..

16th February 2010, 10:55 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	[QUOTE=BluErf]The "original" is quite unusual, but has Peninsula flavour, especially the petals. But as we move down the pendoko to the stem, it looks stranger and stranger. Where did you get this pendoko? Like Alam guessing before it's a Sumbawa pendokok, I get it with a Sumbawa keris, but it have been to small for the handle.