Were sabres used effectively in U.S. Civil War?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by sirupate

... but the Cavalry under Custer's command certainley did use their sabres, with great success against the Union cavalry....

wow, i always knew that yankee general was rough on his own troops, but to use a sabre on them is a bit OTT.

[sirupate]

Corrected

[kronckew]

thank you, suh!

one of gen. custer's saving graces was his love for greyhounds.

The US cavalry used greyhounds as scouts to help spot Native Americans, since the greyhounds were fast enough to keep up with the horses. General George Custer reportedly always took his 22 coursing greyhounds with him when he travelled. Custer loved to nap on the parlor floor, surrounded by a sea of greyhounds. He normally coursed his hounds the day before a battle, including the day before the Battle of Little Big Horn.

my greyhounds, of course, are of a more southerly persuasion.


more in keeping with the thread, i've just been reading an account of the 'last stand', just before the battle the 7th apparently boxed up all their sabres, officers and enlisted as well, and sent them into storage, so they must not have considered them to be worth the effort of carrying. sadly for them, they also so considered them new-fangled gatling guns to be too much trouble to take with them to defeat a few measly injuns.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by kronckew

my greyhounds, of course, are of a more southerly persuasion.

Don't tell me you're going to lynch this puppy for making a mess on the Southern Cross.

[VANDOO]

BACK IN CUSTERS DAY MANY INDIAN TRIBES WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED GREYHOUNDS FAST FOOD

A VERY CUTE PUPPY BUT I AM A TERRIER KIND OF GUY

I SUSPECT MOST AMERICAN CALVARY MEN WERE NOT FOND OF THE SABRE BUT WERE REQUIRED TO CARRY THEM AND USE THEM IN SOME DRILLS. WITH LITTLE TRAINING AND THE HOPE THAT THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE TO USE THEM PERHAPS THEY NEVER BOTHERED TO SHARPEN THEM AND ONLY KEPT THEM CLEAN TO PASS INSPECTION AND MOSTLY CONSIDERED THEM AN ALMOST USLESS PART OF THEIR UNIFORM. I DOUBT THEY WERE ACTUALLY ORDERED NOT TO SHARPEN THEM BUT A POOR JOB OF SHARPENING COULD LEAD TO FAILING AN INSPECTION AND POSSIBLE PUNISHMENT.
ITS ALL CONJECTURE AS I WASN'T THERE BUT A LIKELY SECENARIO.

[kronckew]

actually, blue didn't mess on it, and anyhow, he's too well armed to argue much with...

his full name is 'bonny blue flag', and he is a southern (english) gentleman.

millie (a.k.a. 'Balto Millenium') however, is a good southern irish girl from dublin.

she however objects to being et. she did try to eat a terrierist that was trying to get fresh with her.



as for me...

my familiy is from cullman co., alabama.

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding discussion here guys, with some great perspectives and very useful information. It does seem that the Battle of Brandy Station, Virginia June 9,1863 stands as an excellent example of the effective use of the cavalry sabre in this period. I have seen references to this battle being significant in Custer's reputation, and it does appear that this particular battle was primarily a cavalry engagement. I believe that being the case would support the effective use of sabres from many of the accounts, as the figures that were predominant such as Custer and the brilliant J.E.B.Stuart, who certainly could be considered flamboyant in perceptions of themselves as modern cavaliers. This may suggest that these officers might well have insisted on a bit larger degree of emphasis on use of the sabre with their troops at this time.

From most of what has been discussed here, I am understanding that in the overall course of the war, from the beginning and through the Battle at Brandy Station, the sabre had at least nominal presence as a weapon.
It seems as if with more conscripts and volunteers joining the ranks as the consuming war dragged on, the hurried training offered less attention to these derisively regarded and cumbersome weapons, and became more of an obligatory encumbrance.

It also seems that with the amazing volume of tens of thousands of swords produced and imported, little training, reluctance to thier use, or maintainance, that these swords literally became surplus almost immediately.
This would seem to largely account for such large numbers of these swords of the Civil War remaining unsharpened, and may have led to these perceptions, that sabres were never sharpened.

In studying American swords, I have often seen the irony of the development of the U.S. M1913 "Patton" cavalry sword, often described as one of the finest cavalry swords devised, yet never used in combat. These were produced in considerable number until 1919, but the sword by then was decidedly obsolete. The last use of the cavalry sabre in combat it seems was in Luzon, in the Philippines in 1906, and the swords used were appararantly surplus sabres from the Civil War.

As Vandoo has noted, after this time, the legend of Francis Bannerman began with his monumental acquisition of military surplus, and many thousands of these swords beginning thier odyssey in the collections that became the foundation of our 'collective' hobby.

The notes mentioned on unsharpened swords are well placed, and I recall earlier discussions where British forces were devastated by the seemingly superhuman swordsmanship of the native warriors in India. Even more astounded were they when they discovered that the sabres they were using were actually discarded or captured British swords of the superceded M1796 light cavalry pattern. It was found they were sharpened razor sharp, kept well oiled and in wooden rather than steel scabbards. The secret to this fantastic swordsmanship was not primarily in skill, but in sharp blades.

All best regards,
Jim

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...The last use of the cavalry sabre in combat it seems was in Luzon, in the Philippines in 1906, and the swords used were appararantly surplus sabres from the Civil War...

i assume you mean the last US use, as i've read an account of a british cavalry unit in the early days of WWI that came on a unit of german lancers and charged and engaged them with the sword, and drove them off, and then pursued them until they came upon a single strand of barbed wire a farmer had erected to keep the cows out of his garden, by the time they had gotten around it the germans had escaped. appears the lancers were raw recruits and had as yet received minimal training.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by kronckew

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirupate
... but the Cavalry under Custer's command certainley did use their sabres, with great success against the Union cavalry....

wow, i always knew that yankee general was rough on his own troops, but to use a sabre on them is a bit OTT.

Always suspected Custer was a traitor.