MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE!

[katana]

Hi Dimetry
I quote you from the e-mail received from the forum (with your post)....which has now disappeared from the forum website. I only do this because you brought up an interesting point....

"Well, Jim, what happened to the quality of those men, the brotherhood, in all the Christmases following 1914? No similar occurrences on a significant scale came about........"

Dimetry the reason was that this never occurred again "on a significant scale" was because the Generals had decided that from then on continual Artillary bombardment of enemy trenches (Christmas Eve onwards) would prevent communication between the opposing lines of trenches...and thus further unofficial ceasefires. They were not always successful....unofficial truces occured between

".........British and German troops stationed along the Western Front during Christmas 1914 and, to a lesser extent, in 1915. In 1915 there was a similar Christmas truce between German and French troops, and during Easter 1916 a truce also existed on the Eastern Front.........."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

Actually the reason I brought this up was simply to show that even in the atmosphere of war, there can be moments of humanity. It seems that the point spoke for itself..it wasn't a revelation...simply a Christmas miracle.
There will always be those who do not see things the same.
It wasn't intended to provoke a debate, just wanted to say something special on Christmas Eve.
Thank you David, Anandalal and Stu for the kind input and Dmitry for the holiday wishes.
I would say that about wraps it up for this topic.

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Actually the reason I brought this up was simply to show that even in the atmosphere of war, there can be moments of humanity. .

I did remove what I posted, because this is not a political forum, and I didn't want to escalate this any further..
But since you insist - indeed, there were 'moments of humanity', followed by spreading poisonous gas on one's fellow-Christians.

In my book the whole Christmas cease fire is nothing but a load of bull. These same soldiers were more than happy to kill one another the next morning.

Your story would have a moral, if the belligerents just dropped their weapons and walked home. Otherwise the X-mas cease fire is pretty meaningless, especially in the pedagogical aspect of it. What did the humankind learn from it, really? Nada. It became a cute Christmas yarn, nothing else.

Merry Christmas, all!

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks again for sharing your valuable perspective. With that I really dont think we need any further views on this, and you're right, this is not a political forum. I had hoped to share something I thought special with others on a very quiet Christmas Eve, and you have certainly illustrated why such miracles are sadly quite out of reach, there was no political issuance intended.
I think its best to leave this thread and go back to weapons OK.

[Dmitry]

Hey, let's not waste this opportunity!
Since we're on the subject of Christmas and War - check out these WWI Christmas cards.
Not much love for the fellow man noted...I especially love the aerial bomb Merry Christmas present, and the shooting star, i.e. a rocket lighting up the sky, so the machine gunners can have a pretty clear sight of the Huns on Christmas Eve!

The Russian card is kinda cute - "Our hero is home just in time for the holidays, sporting his medals". The little boy is a Full Cavalier of the Cross of St.George, Imperial Russian highest enlisted man's honor. Wounded, but very lightly.

[Jim McDougall]

Old wartime postcards are a fascinating field of collecting that is offers interesting possibilities to augment the collecting of arms!
Excellent examples, and I understand these often served well as propoganda during wartime.
Thanks for sharing those here, all very cute. Well done.

[katana]

I realise that Jim posted this as an example of Christmas spirit and not as a topic of discussion, but to truly understand the sentiment, you really have to understand the the situation that the front line troops were facing.....to understand that in the blackness of war....a few....bravely, lit candles of hope.


“…….The early trenches were often hasty creations and poorly constructed; if the trench was badly sighted it could become a sniping hot spot. In bad weather (the winter of 1914 was a dire one) the positions could flood and fall in. The soldiers - unequipped to face the rigours of the cold and rain - found themselves wallowing in a freezing mire of mud and the decaying bodies of the fallen……
…The man at the Front could not help but have a degree of sympathy for his opponents who were having just as miserable a time as they were….
….On the eve of the Truce, the British Army (still a relatively small presence on the Western Front) was manning a stretch of the line running south from the infamous Ypres salient for 27 miles to the La Bassee Canal.
Along the front the enemy was sometimes no more than 70, 50 or even 30 yards away. Both Tommy and Fritz could quite easily hurl greetings and insults to one another, and, importantly, come to tacit agreements not to fire. Incidents of temporary truces and outright fraternisation were more common at this stage in the war than many people today realise ….
With their morale boosted by messages of thanks and their bellies fuller than normal, and with still so much Christmas booty to hand, the season of goodwill entered the trenches. A British Daily Telegraph correspondent wrote that on one part of the line the Germans had managed to slip a chocolate cake into British trenches.
Even more amazingly, it was accompanied with a message asking for a ceasefire later that evening so they could celebrate the festive season and their Captain's birthday. They proposed a concert at 7.30pm when candles, the British were told, would be placed on the parapets of their trenches.
The British accepted the invitation and offered some tobacco as a return present. That evening, at the stated time, German heads suddenly popped up and started to sing. Each number ended with a round of applause from both sides.
The Germans then asked the British to join in. At this point, one very mean-spirited Tommy shouted: 'We'd rather die than sing German.' To which a German joked aloud: 'It would kill us if you did'….
……Along many parts of the line the Truce was spurred on with the arrival in the German trenches of miniature Christmas trees - Tannenbaum. The sight these small pines, decorated with candles and strung along the German parapets, captured the Tommies' imagination, as well as the men of the Indian corps who were reminded of the sacred Hindu festival of light.
It was the perfect excuse for the opponents to start shouting to one another, to start singing and, in some areas, to pluck up the courage to meet one another in no-man's land…..

…..Christmas day began quietly but once the sun was up the fraternisation began. Again songs were sung and rations thrown to one another. It was not long before troops and officers started to take matters into their own hands and ventured forth. No-man's land became something of a playground.
Men exchanged gifts and buttons. In one or two places soldiers who had been barbers in civilian times gave free haircuts. One German, a juggler and a showman, gave an impromptu, and given the circumstances, somewhat surreal performance of his routine in the centre of no-man's land….
….The Truce lasted all day; in places it ended that night, but on other sections of the line it held over Boxing Day and in some areas, a few days more. In fact, there parts on the front where the absence of aggressive behaviour was conspicuous well into 1915….”

http://www.firstworldwar.com/feature...stmastruce.htm


As to the postcards....mostly political propaganda....produced to demonise the enemy. They actually make the ceasefire even more of a miracle....it shows the extent of the propaganda ...which was still ignored by a number of soldiers on the front.

Originally Posted by Dmitry

..............
In my book the whole Christmas cease fire is nothing but a load of bull. These same soldiers were more than happy to kill one another the next morning.

Your story would have a moral, if the belligerents just dropped their weapons and walked home. Otherwise the X-mas cease fire is pretty meaningless, especially in the pedagogical aspect of it.

Dmitry, if a soldier refused to fight, for any reason, he would be branded a 'coward' or 'deserter' and excecuted by firing squad. The fact that this 'extreme' punishment was implemented, demonstrates that many must have wished to 'lay down their arms' and instigate peace..... The details of the ceasefires were surpressed by the opposing governments .....they wanted to demonise their 'enemy' ....not humanise them. Perhaps, if the higher powers had not 'covered up' the incident or made out that the ceasefire was a stragetic action to gather information about the enemy....the war would have ended sooner.



Below is a picture entitled…..
British and German troops meet in no man's land. Boxing Day, 1914. Photographed by 2nd Lt Cyril Drummand, RFA.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Dmitry

... In my book the whole Christmas cease fire is nothing but a load of bull. These same soldiers were more than happy to kill one another the next morning....

Sinister book. Has the author interviewed the soldiers?

[Dmitry]

Originally Posted by fernando

Sinister book. Has the author interviewed the soldiers?

No, but the author is aware of 16 million dead and 21 million wounded. That is why the author collects swords and not Phosgene canisters.

[Jim McDougall]

Well even that didn't work!!! Christmas is over, not that this thread is even about Christmas Eve, as it began. As I mentioned before, what developed here thanks to the insistance in turning the thread into an editorial column is far from what was intended. For me, a lesson learned, even a message well intended can be distorted, which as previously noted, clearly displays the polarities in the spectrum of 'humanity'.
I left this open far too long hoping that good will would prevail. I was wrong,
THANKS

Thread closed