English Short Sword

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
This may or may not be helpful! go to, www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/g09.pdf
Regards,
Norman.

[kahnjar1]

Now that IS interesting.
Gene,you now have a contact to send those pics.
Manolo, the plot thickens!
Norm, thanks for that information. I personally did not know that this symbol was so widely used.
Regards Stuart

[Dmitry]

Customs can be excluded from the list, imho. From the 1820s onward, the British Customs officers swords followed the Royal Navy and Army patterns, to a degree, and used the same swords as the prison guards for their fighting cutlasses. In any case, they look nothing like this sword.

My feeling, by the look of it, this could be a civil guard/warden's piece.

[Atlantia]

Ok Gents,
Well I've made some calls.

Imperial war museum.
No luck, can't seem to get through to the right person so I've left a message.

Tower of London.
Managed to sweet talk them into letting me speak to the curator of armouries who deals with swords. Lovely lady, actualy happened to be looking through a book on yeomanry weapons and uniforms at the time!!
I've sent her the pictures and she will let us know if she can ID it or hopefully point us in the right direction if she cannot.
I contacted her because the Tower has one of the finest collections in the UK and its curators should be familiar with the regalia of London.

She has suggested from my telephone description that if she cannot help, we might try Westminster Palace, or the Kensington Palace court dress collection.


P.S.
A thought has just occured.
The chain on the portcillis is very short (in number of links)
Could this be an identifying factor?

[Bryan.H]

Here's one on the oldswords.com database...


The description given is:

"Item Description (Item Id: 103775)

Overall length 26.5 inches, and with a 20.25 inch blade, this is double edged and of shallow diamond section, it is etched with a panel with E.Woods & Son Bow St Covent Garden, the hilt has white metal mounts and the shell guard is cast with a crowned portcullis, the handle is covered with fish-skin and bound with wire, some areas of staining to the blade, otherwise good condition"

No reference to whom this sword was issued though.

[Atlantia]

Well, that proves one thing.
This is not a marriage or altered item.

Gotta go out now. Midwife appointment for my Mrs and me
Will report progress if any when I get back. (couple of hours)
In the meantime, does anyone want to try and track down an email address for the other collections suggested?

Gene

[Atlantia]

OK, well here are the relevant bits of the back and fourth conversations I've had with our kind curator at The Tower's Armoury today.
I did explain that the sword belonged to a friend of mine who wasn't in the UK, so I'm sure she expects me to be sharing the relevant pieces of the emails:

She at first drew a blank and passed it to a collegue to research.

'My colleague is pursuing it – we think Wallace and Wallace may have had one go through some years ago. Interesting that they are produced in both white and yellow metal. Blank on named firm – nothing in Swords for Sea Service vol II (I’m not entirely surprised; probably a retailer not a maker) or in my small index down here. Most of this sort of information should be at Leeds, if you ring the Library and ask them to look in the de Cosson index (Tel: 0113.220.1832), but probably requires a hike through the later 19th C directories.'

And lastly:

'Kent Arms sales sold one in the 1990s and id it as Customs House one – not sure, but you might ask Customs Museum at Liverpool. The one for sale was white metal too.

Other than that cannot think of many more avenues. Will let you know if aught more turns up.'

Something to digest!

[Dmitry]

There is no maker Woods & Son on Bow St, however there's a E. [Edmund] Wood, listed as a sword cutler, working on Bow St ca.1822-1836.
He later moved to 10 Great Wild St in Lincoln's Inn Fields, ca/1837-1840