Shashka: wootz???

TVV · 12th September 2009, 02:58 AM

I am not a metallurgist - actually quite the opposite, but I vote - sham wootz. This is probably mostly due to wishful thinking on my part, as I have a kindjal with a similar pattern visible throughout the blade - pictures attached.
Regards,
Teodor

Lew · 12th September 2009, 03:34 AM

My vote is sham wootz also

Jeff Pringle · 12th September 2009, 03:32 PM

Nice blades!
Could be shear steel, the 'other' pre-Bessemer way to make steel from iron.
Here is a pic of a lightly etched wood chisel made of shear steel, the laminations can be coase or fine depending on the amount of processing. It can look almost exactly like sham wootz

katana · 12th September 2009, 06:43 PM

Could well be shear steel. I had a victorian carver which accidently had vinegar (from pickled onions) spilled on it. Didn't know until several hours later, washed it off to see faint sham wootz patterning

....but the 'impressed' wording of "shear steel" on the blade ...sorta took the 'wind from my sails'

Nice piece

Regards David

ariel · 13th September 2009, 04:24 AM

Thanks to everyone of you for your intest and opinion.
What bugs me a bit, is the complete absense of markings: to my knowledge, most, if not all mass-produced military blades carried manufacturers' IDs.
Second, passing the blade between the fingers, it has irregular "bumps" in thickness: that makes me believe it was hand-made.
Third, I went through my ( limited) supply of books on European blades 19-20 centuries and could not find an analogue.
Fourth, the Bessemer theory is interesting: but were there mass-produced Bessemer blades?Where, what pattern, similar to this one?
Overall, I get a feeling it is not a standard, regimented saber blade, but rather an experimental, one-of-a-kind pattern.
As you see, I shamelessly try to sway your opinion toward it being wootz-y. I really want to have an example of Anosov's sword :-)
But go ahead, disabuse me of my notion.....

ALEX · 13th September 2009, 09:30 AM

Ariel, my vote is for sham wootz. A bit too bold for shear steel, in my opinion. Wether Anosov's hand - an inteligent guess without any markings or similar references.
-
The similar linear pattern can be seen on this kilij: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pala
especially at the base of the blade (3rd and 6th pictures from the top). Even though it has some mechanical appearance, it is unmistakenly wootz.

ariel · 14th September 2009, 04:12 PM

BIG FAVOR:

If anyone has in his/her possession actual blades or photographs of Anosov'e bulat, please post them here!

12th September 2009, 02:58 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,769	I am not a metallurgist - actually quite the opposite, but I vote - sham wootz. This is probably mostly due to wishful thinking on my part, as I have a kindjal with a similar pattern visible throughout the blade - pictures attached. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

12th September 2009, 03:32 PM	#3
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Nice blades! Could be shear steel, the 'other' pre-Bessemer way to make steel from iron. Here is a pic of a lightly etched wood chisel made of shear steel, the laminations can be coase or fine depending on the amount of processing. It can look almost exactly like sham wootz Attached Images

13th September 2009, 09:30 AM	#6
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Ariel, my vote is for sham wootz. A bit too bold for shear steel, in my opinion. Wether Anosov's hand - an inteligent guess without any markings or similar references. - The similar linear pattern can be seen on this kilij: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=pala especially at the base of the blade (3rd and 6th pictures from the top). Even though it has some mechanical appearance, it is unmistakenly wootz. Last edited by ALEX; 13th September 2009 at 10:17 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12th September 2009, 03:34 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	My vote is sham wootz also

12th September 2009, 06:43 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Could well be shear steel. I had a victorian carver which accidently had vinegar (from pickled onions) spilled on it. Didn't know until several hours later, washed it off to see faint sham wootz patterning ....but the 'impressed' wording of "shear steel" on the blade ...sorta took the 'wind from my sails' Nice piece Regards David

13th September 2009, 04:24 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Thanks to everyone of you for your intest and opinion. What bugs me a bit, is the complete absense of markings: to my knowledge, most, if not all mass-produced military blades carried manufacturers' IDs. Second, passing the blade between the fingers, it has irregular "bumps" in thickness: that makes me believe it was hand-made. Third, I went through my ( limited) supply of books on European blades 19-20 centuries and could not find an analogue. Fourth, the Bessemer theory is interesting: but were there mass-produced Bessemer blades?Where, what pattern, similar to this one? Overall, I get a feeling it is not a standard, regimented saber blade, but rather an experimental, one-of-a-kind pattern. As you see, I shamelessly try to sway your opinion toward it being wootz-y. I really want to have an example of Anosov's sword :-) But go ahead, disabuse me of my notion.....

14th September 2009, 04:12 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	BIG FAVOR: If anyone has in his/her possession actual blades or photographs of Anosov'e bulat, please post them here!