Could use help identifying this flintlock pistol

tombstone777 · 6th September 2009, 04:47 PM

Hi Jim!

I too love to find out more about the provinence of these wonderful pieces of history and I will relay to you what little I know now. I inherited this from my sister-in-law a couple of weeks ago. Her Dad worked for Texaco I believe and he and his wife travelled extensively thoughout the world during his career and after retirement and I suppose you could consider him to have been a collector of sorts. He picked up weapons and other interesting pieces in his travels and, while I do not know where he got this particular gun, I'm sure that it was in the middle or near east, probably in the late 60's.

He passed away about 15 years ago and his wife has recently had multiple brain hemmorages which has rendered her all but comatose. So - no help there on where it was aquired. I will see if my sister-in-law can recall any stories about it - she does remember the story of how he aquired the WWII Katana (which I have another current post on) from a dutch sailor who claimed it was taken from a Japanese officer during the war.

I will pass along any more info that I receive so as to help in keeping the history of this piece alive. In the meantime I will work on cleaning it up a bit more to reveal more detail.

Any thoughts on how to clean the stock? It has quite a bit of inlaid wire (probably brass but could be silver - it's so patinated that I can't tell yet) and also bits of wire inserted almost like tiny, headless nails, in patterns along the inlaid wire.

I'll report back soon. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge that's being shared!

Jim McDougall · 6th September 2009, 06:20 PM

Hi Tim,
Thank you for sharing the information at hand on these pieces, and I am sorry to hear that such misfortune has fallen on these people. I hope that further research can add some useful history to what little is known so that the comfort of these pieces of now family history can be preserved.
The guys here have incredible knowledge on these weapons, and hopefully research will continue to reveal more information.

In the meantime, my position on cleaning and restoring of weapons, far from any expertise, is to stay emphatically conservative. The age that develops on weapons in the form of patination and darkening,aside from any type of active rust, rot or such degradation, is simply pure history, and adds to the distinct character of the piece.

I think the others will add more on best means for preservation and cleaning. I've only ever used gun oil, WD40 and for wood , lemon oil.

Thank you again for sharing these here.

All the best,
Jim

celtan · 6th September 2009, 06:32 PM

An ultrasonic tgoothbrush, like Braun or Oracare, plus Windex. The wood can then be taken care of with Orange Oil.
Don't polish any brass! If there's active "red" rust, you may take care of it with a very fine sandpaper or wire-mesh sponge.
Once the rust is inactivated, clean away the oil from the metal, and polish with restorer's wax, or even plain Car Wax.
Best
M

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombstone777

Hi Jim!

I too love to find out more about the provinence of these wonderful pieces of history and I will relay to you what little I know now. I inherited this from my sister-in-law a couple of weeks ago. Her Dad worked for Texaco I believe and he and his wife travelled extensively thoughout the world during his career and after retirement and I suppose you could consider him to have been a collector of sorts. He picked up weapons and other interesting pieces in his travels and, while I do not know where he got this particular gun, I'm sure that it was in the middle or near east, probably in the late 60's.

He passed away about 15 years ago and his wife has recently had multiple brain hemmorages which has rendered her all but comatose. So - no help there on where it was aquired. I will see if my sister-in-law can recall any stories about it - she does remember the story of how he aquired the WWII Katana (which I have another current post on) from a dutch sailor who claimed it was taken from a Japanese officer during the war.

I will pass along any more info that I receive so as to help in keeping the history of this piece alive. In the meantime I will work on cleaning it up a bit more to reveal more detail.

Any thoughts on how to clean the stock? It has quite a bit of inlaid wire (probably brass but could be silver - it's so patinated that I can't tell yet) and also bits of wire inserted almost like tiny, headless nails, in patterns along the inlaid wire.

I'll report back soon. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge that's being shared!

kahnjar1 · 7th September 2009, 05:27 AM

This stock looks OK to me with maybe a little dirt against the carved bits. I would be inclined to give it a rub over with some raw linseed oil and see how it looks after that. Linseed oil was what was used on those really nice English gunstocks you see around, and was rubbed by hand. If you find that you would like to enhance the silver inlays, then give it a VERY LIGHT rub over with FINE "Steelo" (not the soap variety) before oiling it.
Where the barrel and lock lay, you will need to remove any rust residue also.
As you have the pistol in bits I would suggest the pineapple juice bath to clear the rust. By the look of the metal parts this may take you some considerable time, but it WILL work.
ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NOT A CHARGE DOWN THE BARREL!
Hope this helps.
Regards Stuart

tombstone777 · 7th September 2009, 10:03 PM

Hi Stuart, M and Jim!

Thanks again for the great input and I will proceed with the cleaning in a conservative manner - I certainly don't want to take away any of it's historic character. How long do you think the pineapple juice soak should be? Will it etch the metal at all and/or remove fine details of the engraving on the lock? And what are your thoughts on replacing the lock screws and fabricating a barrel band and the "screw" or finial that once held the butt pice in place? Should the barrel band be made of brass or silver (since there is silver inlay on the stock)?

Again all thoughts and opinions are welcome and appreciated!

Best Regards
,Tim

kahnjar1 · 8th September 2009, 12:28 AM

The pineapple juice will take quite a time but be patient. It will be worth it in the end. Process is to let it soak for a few days and use (maybe household Scotchbrite--that green abrasive cloth) to remove loosened rust. Keep repeating the process until most of the surface rust is gone, and then use fine Steelo once the metal surface is revealed. You will also need to refresh the pineapple juice frequently. You will end up with a greyish surface on the metal but this is easily removed with a light rubbing with Steelo. The process will not damage the surface.
As far as part replacement is concerned, my policy has always been to use what you have, but obviously if parts are broken or missing then they will have to be mended/replaced. If you have a local friendly gunsmith, he may have boxes of old gunscrews which could just suit your needs.
In my opinion the missing barrel band would be brass, but get the colour right when you chose the piece. Brass DOES vary in colour. Check out books to get an idea of what it should look like. As far as the finial goes, I would glue it in place and put a suitable brass plug in the hole. PM or email me if you like with any other questions.
Regards Stu

7th September 2009, 05:27 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	Stock Cleaning. This stock looks OK to me with maybe a little dirt against the carved bits. I would be inclined to give it a rub over with some raw linseed oil and see how it looks after that. Linseed oil was what was used on those really nice English gunstocks you see around, and was rubbed by hand. If you find that you would like to enhance the silver inlays, then give it a VERY LIGHT rub over with FINE "Steelo" (not the soap variety) before oiling it. Where the barrel and lock lay, you will need to remove any rust residue also. As you have the pistol in bits I would suggest the pineapple juice bath to clear the rust. By the look of the metal parts this may take you some considerable time, but it WILL work. ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NOT A CHARGE DOWN THE BARREL! Hope this helps. Regards Stuart

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6th September 2009, 04:47 PM	#1
tombstone777 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 14	Hi Jim! I too love to find out more about the provinence of these wonderful pieces of history and I will relay to you what little I know now. I inherited this from my sister-in-law a couple of weeks ago. Her Dad worked for Texaco I believe and he and his wife travelled extensively thoughout the world during his career and after retirement and I suppose you could consider him to have been a collector of sorts. He picked up weapons and other interesting pieces in his travels and, while I do not know where he got this particular gun, I'm sure that it was in the middle or near east, probably in the late 60's. He passed away about 15 years ago and his wife has recently had multiple brain hemmorages which has rendered her all but comatose. So - no help there on where it was aquired. I will see if my sister-in-law can recall any stories about it - she does remember the story of how he aquired the WWII Katana (which I have another current post on) from a dutch sailor who claimed it was taken from a Japanese officer during the war. I will pass along any more info that I receive so as to help in keeping the history of this piece alive. In the meantime I will work on cleaning it up a bit more to reveal more detail. Any thoughts on how to clean the stock? It has quite a bit of inlaid wire (probably brass but could be silver - it's so patinated that I can't tell yet) and also bits of wire inserted almost like tiny, headless nails, in patterns along the inlaid wire. I'll report back soon. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge that's being shared!

6th September 2009, 06:20 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Tim, Thank you for sharing the information at hand on these pieces, and I am sorry to hear that such misfortune has fallen on these people. I hope that further research can add some useful history to what little is known so that the comfort of these pieces of now family history can be preserved. The guys here have incredible knowledge on these weapons, and hopefully research will continue to reveal more information. In the meantime, my position on cleaning and restoring of weapons, far from any expertise, is to stay emphatically conservative. The age that develops on weapons in the form of patination and darkening,aside from any type of active rust, rot or such degradation, is simply pure history, and adds to the distinct character of the piece. I think the others will add more on best means for preservation and cleaning. I've only ever used gun oil, WD40 and for wood , lemon oil. Thank you again for sharing these here. All the best, Jim

7th September 2009, 10:03 PM	#5
tombstone777 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 14	Hi Stuart, M and Jim! Thanks again for the great input and I will proceed with the cleaning in a conservative manner - I certainly don't want to take away any of it's historic character. How long do you think the pineapple juice soak should be? Will it etch the metal at all and/or remove fine details of the engraving on the lock? And what are your thoughts on replacing the lock screws and fabricating a barrel band and the "screw" or finial that once held the butt pice in place? Should the barrel band be made of brass or silver (since there is silver inlay on the stock)? Again all thoughts and opinions are welcome and appreciated! Best Regards ,Tim

8th September 2009, 12:28 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,786	The pineapple juice will take quite a time but be patient. It will be worth it in the end. Process is to let it soak for a few days and use (maybe household Scotchbrite--that green abrasive cloth) to remove loosened rust. Keep repeating the process until most of the surface rust is gone, and then use fine Steelo once the metal surface is revealed. You will also need to refresh the pineapple juice frequently. You will end up with a greyish surface on the metal but this is easily removed with a light rubbing with Steelo. The process will not damage the surface. As far as part replacement is concerned, my policy has always been to use what you have, but obviously if parts are broken or missing then they will have to be mended/replaced. If you have a local friendly gunsmith, he may have boxes of old gunscrews which could just suit your needs. In my opinion the missing barrel band would be brass, but get the colour right when you chose the piece. Brass DOES vary in colour. Check out books to get an idea of what it should look like. As far as the finial goes, I would glue it in place and put a suitable brass plug in the hole. PM or email me if you like with any other questions. Regards Stu