Hudiedao

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks M ELEY and Jim!
I am actually a little surprised this thread has continued on in good discussion.
It's a good thing, all too often there's a discussion and then no one replies any more.

The parallels you guys draw between piracy, double-lives, and martial skills in China with other cultures is pretty interesting. This double-lives aspect was one that I was not aware of so I must thank you two for bringing it up and elaborating on it.

As for the connection between that and bodyguards, well it makes sense that while on the job, a Hau You Biao Ju guard would be upstanding and hold true to his mission (in order to get paid)... but it would be all too easy to allow bandits (with whom he has guanshi) to overwhelm the convoy, or perhaps he himself could do it as the travelers needed bodyguards in the first place... or perhaps bandits were also partially "seasonal"? I remember reading once that mercenaries in Europe often resorted to banditry when not in the service of a lord (during war). Perhaps the same can be said of some soldiers and martial artists. Not all of them settled back into farming or sought refuge in monasteries to quietly deal with the psychological shock of war... I'm sure some decided to go for easier targets while without a job. Gotta "feed the kids and pay the bills" somehow?

[harimauhk]

Hi Everyone I live in Hong Kong, where Wing Chun is everywhere. Interestingly, I've had a hard time locating a good quality pair of baat jam do (8 cut knives) here. Anyone have any suggestions on where to get a really good pair of usable ones? I know Cold Steel make some, but I'd rather get some from China (for less, ideally).

[fearn]

Convergence of threads?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10103

I was going to suggest commissioning a pair from a local smith, if you happen to be in an area where there are local smiths.

[KuKulzA28]

Their wares are good, but expensive. I'm not sure if I am allowed to link to a website.. they say no linking to live auction but I've linked to an antique vendor and got "strike 2"... so I will PM you harimauhk

[Gavin Nugent]

Good people,

I took these images last week for a Russian journalist. I thought some readers would appreciate seeing the images within these pages for reference too.

Regards

Gav

[josh stout]

I have only seen a few examples in person, but I have the feeling that the shorter fat blade late Qing (post 1850) hudiedao were rarely if ever pattern welded, and have somewhat basic handles with the carving if any, done just to improve the grip using a soft wood. These seem to have been copied in style by the later Republican pieces and modern examples.

The narrow blade hudiedao all are pattern welded, often with finely carved hardwood handles. Large single hudiedao are seen in period artwork of late Qing tigermen, and other regular soldiers, though they were never a regulation weapon.

I had a long discussion with a martial artist by the name of Martin Watts who studies Fujian white crane kung-fu. He had traveled to Wing Tsun village to learn the style only to find them practicing white crane. This makes sense in that southern white crane was supposedly the origin of wing tsun. So Martin wanted to learn a double dao style and asked the local blacksmith to make him a set. The blacksmith came back with the narrow blade style of hudiedao.

My thought is that either kind of blade could be used by martial artists, but that the two styles represented class differences.
Josh

[Gavin Nugent]

My observations based on these pieces at hand and that of photographic imagery I have from the 1860s would be;

The longer ones either broad or narrow were more commonly found in the mid 1800s and exhibited various styles of pattern welding as you note. The wood mostly appears to be rosewood a good strong reliable timber that looks stunning when carved in any manner.

The old rusty shorter ones presented, if ever restored, will I am sure also show a pattern welded blade, these things are massively heavy for their size and very thick, quite consistant with the longer versions in manufacturing features.

The other short pair are on loan, are very light but equally as capable, they show a very clear inserted edge. Also after many attempts at bringing a pattern out are now starting to show a couple of good long pattern lines and I am pretty sure more will pop over time. These to me date in the first quarter of the 20th century.

I'd love to see the artwork with the tiger men and the single large dao.
I have a short heavy early dao pictured in the inital postings that I have seen as referenced as being used with a shield. I'll put a better image of it up for show soon.

I do not know if these styles are seperated by class based on peasant militaria images I have but with the quality of the hilt carvings one would think it is certainly plausible.

I'd be interested to see the longer ones demonstrated in the arts but to date I have not seen such applications.

Thanks for stopping by.

Gav