Staining keris with Chinese warangan

harimauhk · 26th July 2009, 11:01 AM

I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass...

Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2009, 01:49 PM

It is most definitely an art.

Its also something that no matter how much experience you have, there are no gaurantees that you might not have to clean off and re-do several times before you get the result you want.

To me, 80% does sound too high.

You do not need to get the blade dripping wet. I mix the suspension, wait till all the arsenic sinks, wait a bit longer, then just barely touch the bristles of a soft old toothbrush in the fluid, and rub it on:- blade is just barely damp.

I have never tried to do this job through glass. I don't like the idea. Might work, I don't know.But inside there is no breeze, and a little bit of breeze helps the drying process.

If the blade is really wet, it just will not go black, more likely go yellowish- brown.

You need to get the surface to go really sticky, then you apply the suspension again and keep working it into the blade until it goes sticky again. You keep on doing this till the colour darkens, then you rinse it off, and blade goes pale again, you dry it, and start the process again, and you keep on doing this until when you rinse it off, it stays black. The big trick is to judge what it will look like after you rinse and dry it, so you know when to stop. Do the job in cloudy weather and the white will not sparkle.Don't ask me why, I don't know.

Rick · 26th July 2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass...

Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

Not sure about Alan, but I would be concerned about fumes in an indoor setting .

Got a balcony or deck ?

harimauhk · 26th July 2009, 09:04 PM

Hormat Alan and Rick,

Good stuff. I now know I was definitely using too much warangan. I live up on the 12th floor, which is actually 13 floors above street level because my block of flats is on a slight incline. There is usually a fairly good breeze in my living room if the windows are open. I don't have a balcony or deck, so I think I'll mranggi the keris out in the corridor: since this building was built in the late '60s, there is a fair amount of indirect sunlight out there during the day and lots of airflow. The elderly gent down the hall hangs his laundry up out there and I sometimes practice my silat outside my front door when it's raining out!

I'll probably get some odd looks from the neighbours if I'm sitting out there painting warangan onto a keris, but I get those looks all the time anyway, so I'm not too bothered.

I think the process will go much better this time around. I'd like to work the file marks off using coconut husk as suggested, so I'll pick up a coconut later in the week. They are often used in religious practices in Hinduism, which is the only time we've ever used them at home...

Jai

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2009, 11:33 PM

Jai, I don't think you will remove any file marks with coconut husk. We use the husk with abu gosok in the same way that here in Australia we use a pot cleaner and powdered sink cleaner to remove dirty marks from pots and sinks.The husk and abu gosok is used to make the blade white, prior to beginning the staining.

If you want to do a refinish you need wet and dry paper, but quite frankly, I'd leave the file marks alone. You cannot just remove a little bit, if you start to play around with the finish, you really need to refinish the entire surface of the blade, and then age the surface again, then begin the staining process again. Truly, you are looking at a major project to do this, especially if you do not have any sort of workshop set up.

If I were you I would not go fiddling around with the finish.

The situation you have to work in is far from ideal, however, a friend in Canada once did a halfway decent job working in his basement during winter in Alberta, so you'll get some sort of result. What I've been telling you up to now is for optimum results.

Rick, I've read somewhere in one of the old books about the necessity to do the job outside only when the trade winds are blowing, because if not, you die a horrible, painful death from inhalation of the fumes.Where I live there are no trade winds, I always work outside , so there is always circulation of air, but I have very, very often got a whiff of the vaguely unpleasant smell of the job, and I'm still sucking air. I gave up worrying about the fumes years ago.

Rick · 27th July 2009, 01:40 AM

Just thought I'd mention it Alan; after all we're handing free advice out on the 'Net' if you catch my drift .

Can't be too careful mate .

A. G. Maisey · 27th July 2009, 02:20 AM

Yep. Understand perfectly Rick.

I'm not giving advice in respect of the fumes, only relating my own experience.

harimauhk · 27th July 2009, 02:32 AM

I did it indoors the first time around and (I believe) I'm still alive and kicking, so I'm not too worried about the fumes, but I will basically be outdoors next time round. Thanks Rick, you definitely can't be too careful when it comes to working with arsenic. I'll leave the file marks alone then, but I will try to scrub off the stubborn blackened portions of the old warangan that refuse to budge with the coconut husk. If the mranggi turns out successfully, I'll be back with pictures.

Alan, definitely good to know the ideal way to go, even if I can't get it 100% right. I might do it up on the rooftop, but in the shade (not in direct sunlight) so there is no glass to worry about. There's a tap up there too, so I'll have a source of water with which to wash the keris off as I'm working.

kulbuntet · 29th July 2009, 11:22 AM

Indoor setting is posible.... but some of you know..if the balls get to tingle....get out of there

27th July 2009, 01:40 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Liabilities Just thought I'd mention it Alan; after all we're handing free advice out on the 'Net' if you catch my drift . Can't be too careful mate .

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26th July 2009, 11:01 AM	#1
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass... Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

26th July 2009, 01:49 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	It is most definitely an art. Its also something that no matter how much experience you have, there are no gaurantees that you might not have to clean off and re-do several times before you get the result you want. To me, 80% does sound too high. You do not need to get the blade dripping wet. I mix the suspension, wait till all the arsenic sinks, wait a bit longer, then just barely touch the bristles of a soft old toothbrush in the fluid, and rub it on:- blade is just barely damp. I have never tried to do this job through glass. I don't like the idea. Might work, I don't know.But inside there is no breeze, and a little bit of breeze helps the drying process. If the blade is really wet, it just will not go black, more likely go yellowish- brown. You need to get the surface to go really sticky, then you apply the suspension again and keep working it into the blade until it goes sticky again. You keep on doing this till the colour darkens, then you rinse it off, and blade goes pale again, you dry it, and start the process again, and you keep on doing this until when you rinse it off, it stays black. The big trick is to judge what it will look like after you rinse and dry it, so you know when to stop. Do the job in cloudy weather and the white will not sparkle.Don't ask me why, I don't know.

26th July 2009, 09:04 PM	#4
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hormat Alan and Rick, Good stuff. I now know I was definitely using too much warangan. I live up on the 12th floor, which is actually 13 floors above street level because my block of flats is on a slight incline. There is usually a fairly good breeze in my living room if the windows are open. I don't have a balcony or deck, so I think I'll mranggi the keris out in the corridor: since this building was built in the late '60s, there is a fair amount of indirect sunlight out there during the day and lots of airflow. The elderly gent down the hall hangs his laundry up out there and I sometimes practice my silat outside my front door when it's raining out! I'll probably get some odd looks from the neighbours if I'm sitting out there painting warangan onto a keris, but I get those looks all the time anyway, so I'm not too bothered. I think the process will go much better this time around. I'd like to work the file marks off using coconut husk as suggested, so I'll pick up a coconut later in the week. They are often used in religious practices in Hinduism, which is the only time we've ever used them at home... Jai

26th July 2009, 11:33 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Jai, I don't think you will remove any file marks with coconut husk. We use the husk with abu gosok in the same way that here in Australia we use a pot cleaner and powdered sink cleaner to remove dirty marks from pots and sinks.The husk and abu gosok is used to make the blade white, prior to beginning the staining. If you want to do a refinish you need wet and dry paper, but quite frankly, I'd leave the file marks alone. You cannot just remove a little bit, if you start to play around with the finish, you really need to refinish the entire surface of the blade, and then age the surface again, then begin the staining process again. Truly, you are looking at a major project to do this, especially if you do not have any sort of workshop set up. If I were you I would not go fiddling around with the finish. The situation you have to work in is far from ideal, however, a friend in Canada once did a halfway decent job working in his basement during winter in Alberta, so you'll get some sort of result. What I've been telling you up to now is for optimum results. Rick, I've read somewhere in one of the old books about the necessity to do the job outside only when the trade winds are blowing, because if not, you die a horrible, painful death from inhalation of the fumes.Where I live there are no trade winds, I always work outside , so there is always circulation of air, but I have very, very often got a whiff of the vaguely unpleasant smell of the job, and I'm still sucking air. I gave up worrying about the fumes years ago.

27th July 2009, 02:20 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Yep. Understand perfectly Rick. I'm not giving advice in respect of the fumes, only relating my own experience.

27th July 2009, 02:32 AM	#8
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I did it indoors the first time around and (I believe) I'm still alive and kicking, so I'm not too worried about the fumes, but I will basically be outdoors next time round. Thanks Rick, you definitely can't be too careful when it comes to working with arsenic. I'll leave the file marks alone then, but I will try to scrub off the stubborn blackened portions of the old warangan that refuse to budge with the coconut husk. If the mranggi turns out successfully, I'll be back with pictures. Alan, definitely good to know the ideal way to go, even if I can't get it 100% right. I might do it up on the rooftop, but in the shade (not in direct sunlight) so there is no glass to worry about. There's a tap up there too, so I'll have a source of water with which to wash the keris off as I'm working.

29th July 2009, 11:22 AM	#9
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Indoor setting is posible.... but some of you know..if the balls get to tingle....get out of there